Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

> Overall, vegetarian and vegan diets are significantly associated with better lipid profile, glycemic control, body weight/BMI, inflammation, and lower risk of ischemic heart disease and cancer. Vegetarian diet is also associated with lower mortality from CVDs. On the other hand, no difference in the risk of developing gestational diabetes and hypertension were reported in pregnant women following vegetarian diets. Study quality was average. A key limitation is represented by the high heterogeneity of the study population in terms of sample size, demography, geographical origin, dietary patterns, and other lifestyle confounders.

> Plant-based diets appear beneficial in reducing cardiometabolic risk factors, as well as CVDs, cancer risk and mortality. However, caution should be paid before broadly suggesting the adoption of A/AFPDs since the strength-of-evidence of study results is significantly limited by the large study heterogeneity alongside the potential risks associated with potentially restrictive regimens.

tl;dr (which you've heard many times before): Eat less/no meat if you want to live longer and healthier. Ignore this advice at your own peril. I learned this lesson the hard way.



sort by: page size:

"It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease. Vegans need reliable sources of vitamin B-12, such as fortified foods or supplements."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27886704


> It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage.

- Position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics: Vegetarian Diets

The Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics is the largest group of professional nutritionist in the world. People putting doubt that plant-only diets can be healthy are showing the same level of anti-science that climate change deniers are.

The paper goes on to say that having a plant based diet reduces risks of heart disease, type 2 diabetes, and obesity. A vegan diet is one of the most healthy diets an individual can choose when measured by the health outcomes of people that choose the diet.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/


> What if moving away from animal foods in our diets causes an increase in heart disease, cancer and overall mortality?

This seems like a very strange thing to say, given that the scientific consensus seems to suggest we'll see the opposite effect:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26853923 - This comprehensive meta-analysis reports a significant protective effect of a vegetarian diet versus the incidence and/or mortality from ischemic heart disease (-25%) and incidence from total cancer (-8%). Vegan diet conferred a significant reduced risk (-15%) of incidence from total cancer.

Wrt driving less, people go for the easier option, and it's far easier to eat less meat than to drive less.


> humans are built to consume meat. Yes we can manage alternatives, but it’s not really all that healthy

What Science Says About The Health Benefits Of Plant-Based Diets https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/what-science-says-ab...

"A number of studies have shown that a diet low in meat is linked to longer lifespans. But the matter is far from settled, as some studies haven’t found a significant difference in life expectancy between meat eaters and vegetarians.

"But there is growing evidence that plant-based diets are associated with benefits like lower blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar and reduced body weight. These improved health measures often translate to less risk of heart disease, diabetes, cancer and other diseases. Eating more whole, plant-based foods could help lower the risk of some health conditions, and might even help people live longer. But researchers also suspect that vegetarians are more health-conscious overall — so, they’re likely to be drinking and smoking less and moving their bodies more than the general population — which complicates some study results.

"Still, emerging research points to a potentially helpful role of plant-based diets in managing some chronic health conditions. For instance, some studies suggest that plant-based diets — veganism in particular — may help control rheumatoid arthritis."


From the study:

"It should be remarked that, in the majority of the cases, people adopting plant-based diets are more prone to engage in healthy lifestyles that include regular physical activity, reduction/avoidance of sugar-sweetened beverages, alcohol and tobacco, that, in association with previously mentioned modification of diet [62], lead to the reduction of the risk of ischemic heart disease and related mortality, and, to a lesser extent, of other CVDs."

"It has also been described that vegetarians, in addition to reduced meat intake, ate less refined grains, added fats, sweets, snacks foods, and caloric beverages than did nonvegetarians and had increased consumption of a wide variety of plant foods [65]. "


> a vegetarian/vegan diet has been shown in almost every study to be a more healthful diet in every respect

Vegetarians have a higher death rate than meat eaters of the same socio-economic class at all ages.

Every study that looks at actual disease and death rates, and not assumed correlates like cholesterol, has found health benefits from high animal fat intake.

> heart disease, cancer and strokes, though. Those illnesses are linked to higher consumption of meat (Paleo-coronary, anyone?), dairy

Population studies show decreasing rates of heart disease and cancer with increased dairy and meat consumption. Look at post-war Europe and Japan.


Also vegetarian/vegan diets are generally associated with better health outcomes, favourable BMI and lower all-cause mortality in meta studies.

> It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19562864/


Look at ''The Adventist Study 2", which to my knowledge is the largest study ever conducted on the subject which includes not only the vegetarian diet but also the fully plant based diet. https://adventisthealthstudy.org/studies/AHS-2

"From 2001 and 2007, we enrolled as participants 96,000 Adventists, ages 30 to 112, from all 50 U.S. states and Canada."

"Vegetarian diets in AHS-2 are associated with lower BMI values, lower prevalence of hypertension, lower prevalence of the metabolic syndrome, lower prevalence and incidence of diabetes mellitus, and lower all-cause mortality."

"Cox proportional hazards regression analysis (adjusting for age, race, sex, smoking, exercise, education, marital status, alcohol, geographic region, menopause, and hormone therapy) showed reduced all-cause mortality for all vegetarians compared with nonvegetarians (HR: 0.88; 95% CI: 0.80, 0.97). For specific dietary patterns, the HRs were 0.85 (95% CI: 0.73, 1.01) for vegans, 0.91 (95% CI: 0.82, 1.00) for lactoovovegetarians, 0.81 (95% CI: 0.69, 0.94) for pescovegetarians, and 0.92 (95% CI: 0.75, 1.13) for semivegetarians."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4144107/#:~:tex....


Really? There's a body of evidence that a meat-containing diet is protective against heart disease, type-2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and cancer, versus a plant-based diet?

I'd genuinely be very interested for those sources to be shared, please...


"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes." -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19562864

"A healthy vegan diet can meet all your nutrient needs at any stage of life including when you are pregnant, breastfeeding or for older adults." -- http://www.dietitians.ca/Your-Health/Nutrition-A-Z/Vegetaria...

No, you don't need meat; You want it.


This meta analysis talks about the findings of various RCT (Randomized controlled trial) studies in there.

From another meta analysis which talks about this more directly:

>Nevertheless, several RCTs have examined the effect of vegetarian diets on intermediate risk factors of cardiovascular diseases (Table 1). In a meta-analysis of RCTs, Wang et al. (22) found vegetarian diets to significantly lower blood concentrations of total, LDL, HDL, and non-HDL cholesterol relative to a range of omnivorous control diets. Other meta-analyses have found vegetarian diets to lower blood pressure, enhance weight loss, and improve glycemic control to greater extent than omnivorous comparison diets (23-25). Taken together, the beneficial effects of such diets on established proximal determinants of cardiovascular diseases found in RCTs, and their inverse associations with hard cardiovascular endpoints found in prospective cohort studies provide strong support for the adoption of healthful plant-based diets for cardiovascular disease prevention

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/am/pii/S105017...

India and Hong Kong have very different levels of income. Comparing the two is rather misleading when that's going to affect things like access to healthcare


Does this cover off any of the areas you're interested in?

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02615...

>Health outcomes associated with vegetarian diets: An umbrella review of systematic reviews and meta-analyses

>Conclusions: Vegetarian diets are associated with beneficial effects on the blood lipid profile and a reduced risk of negative health outcomes, including diabetes, ischemic heart disease, and cancer risk. Among vegetarians, SDA vegetarians could represent a subgroup with a further reduced risk of negative health outcomes. Vegetarian diets have adverse outcomes on one-carbon metabolism. The effect of vegetarian diets among pregnant and lactating women requires specific attention. Well-designed prospective studies are warranted to evaluate the consequences of the prevalence of vitamin B12 deficiency during pregnancy and infancy on later life and of trace element deficits on cancer risks.


"Numerous studies have revealed a connection between plant-based diets and a decreased risk of heart disease. A vegan diet has been found to be more effective at preventing heart disease than the American Heart Association-recommended diet of small amounts of fish, lean meats, and eggs.

Prof. Zhang’s team says the findings remained steady after accounting for other dietary factors such as age, sex, and education. It also did not matter if participants consumed fried, boiled, poached, or baked eggs.

“Our results should be considered by clinicians and policy makers in updating dietary guidelines for Americans,” study authors conclude."

FWIW I am a vegan but it does seem like there is more an more evidence coming to the public light that this is the healthiest way to eat.


> You omitted health

But we don't need meat for health.

American Dietetic Association

"It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes."

NHS UK

"A vegetarian or vegan diet can be suitable for everyone, regardless of their age."

British Dietetic Association

"[I]t is possible to follow a well-planned, plant-based, vegan friendly diet that supports healthy living in people of all ages, and during pregnancy and breastfeeding."

> Meat is a package of pre-processed vitamins, minerals and energy sources.

In addition to saturated fats, cholesterol, and common additives like nitrates and preservatives, meat consumption can also entail exposure to antibiotics, hormones, bioaccumulated pesticides and herbicides, and ethical concerns related to cruelty and mistreatment in the meat production industry.

> Other than health, taste, tradition, habit and convenience, what has meat ever done for us?

If everyone on Earth adopted the American or European diet, we would require more than five Earths to feed everyone [0]. Animal agriculture is already the leading cause of deforestation [1], biodiversity loss [2] [3], and water pollution [4]. Our current agricultural practices are pushing over a million species towards extinction [5].

Switching to plant-based diets could free up an area equivalent to the combined size of both Americas [6], allowing us to reforest it and promote biodiversity recovery. By reforesting this vast area, we could sequester enough carbon to potentially reverse climate change [7] [8] (assuming a simultaneous phase-out of fossil fuels, of course) [9].

This approach represents the only sustainable way to feed a population of 10 billion [10] while reducing our agricultural land requirements from 4 billion hectares to 1 billion hectares [11]. Animal agriculture is one of the major culprits pushing six out of nine Earth boundaries beyond safe levels [12] [13].

So ... it does a lot.

[0] https://css.umich.edu/publications/factsheets/sustainability...

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/drivers-of-deforestation

[2] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/press-release/our-glob...

[3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/

[4] https://blogs.ubc.ca/makingwaves/2017/02/07/cows-pigs-and-po...

[5] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01448-4

[6] https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2013/10/World-Map-by-Land...

[7] https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/10/8/08...

[8] https://journals.plos.org/climate/article?id=10.1371/journal...

[9] https://ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

[10] https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/917471

[11] https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

[12] https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/research-news/2...

[13] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_boundaries#Nine_boun...


There are many studies that show a link between incidence of cancers and meat consumption as well as increased risk of heart disease[0]. The relative risk is minor, though, and you can live unhealthily on any diet.

[0] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Francesco_Sofi/publicat... for example


> There is a group of Type 2 diabetics in remission who are doing just fine on meat-based and keto-based diets

But how are their arteries looking?

> but I have yet to run across [a vegetarian/vegan] in remission on no medication, for two years or longer, so they might be rare

How many have you run into? How strictly were they following a whole-food plant-based diet? What is your sample size?

Scientifically speaking, the movie "What The Health" summarizes the facts succinctly:

Low Fat, Plant-Based Diet is More than Twice as Powerful at Controlling and/or Reversing Diabetes, than the ADA Diet Recommending Meat and Dairy

See http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/facts/ for a list of citations supporting that statement.


This study seems to not have been performed as rigorously as you'd expect: http://www.realclearscience.com/journal_club/2014/04/04/stud...

To quote the relevant part: "All of the data, including diet information, is self-reported. Thus, we have no idea precisely what vegetarians or the various meat-consuming groups were actually eating. The data is also cross-sectional. "Therefore, no statements can be made whether the poorer health in vegetarians in our study is caused by their dietary habit or if they consume this form of diet due to their poorer health status," the authors admit. Moreover, the study was based in Austria, and the Austrian diet and lifestyle significantly differs from the American diet and lifestyle.

Even if the study wasn't severely limited, it wouldn't be enough to overturn prior evidence. In a 2009 review, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (formerly the American Dietetic Association), the largest organization of food and nutrition professionals in the U.S., declared that "appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases." More recently, a 2012 review published in the journal Public Health Nutrition, found that vegetarian diets have not shown any adverse effects on health. "


Most of the vegetarians/vegans I know have a pretty shitty diet - lots of highly processed grains (bread, pasta, and other fillers), sweets, desserts, sugary drinks (and other "regular" products with added sugars), and otherwise not too diverse of a diet.

Don't know if that's a representative sample of vegetarian/vegan population, but it's not unlikely the case. Hence, the link between the veg* diet and cancer is not hard to imagine.

The main issue with (a lot of) these research papers, other than having bad data to begin with, is the lack of control for other parameters: what exactly do those surveyed meat-eaters and vegetarians eat, and what their lifestyle choices are (e.g., vegetarians are generally more health-conscious, so they often exercise, don't smoke/drink as much, etc.).

next

Legal | privacy