Hacker Read top | best | new | newcomments | leaders | about | bookmarklet login

> All popular songs have been highly formulaic for a long time.

Incredibly reductive and facially absurd considering there is no way to formulaically make a hit song.



sort by: page size:

> they said there is a formula to make popular songs.

No they didn't. They said all popular songs follow a formula.


>> "I wonder how this affects the writing of songs."

It depends on why you're writing the song I guess. If you're writing a pop song you want to get to the top of the charts following that formula is probably essentially (although it obviously doesn't guarantee success). Just listen to some of the top pop songs - they clearly have a formula. The problem is that when everything follows the formula you can't listen to much of it because it gets boring.

I'd say if you're writing a song you want to last, something that will potentially go down as a classic, forget about formulas a write what you think sounds good.


> ... how will humanity ever learn to be creative if everyone keeps doing the same thing over and over

this charted for the yearly top 100 selling songs over the last ~80 years would clearly show the dumbing down of popular music. The Standard Songbook contains music that everyday people sang and danced to, but has a creative variety of chord progressions.


> most genres are more formulaic than people want to believe.

The biggest crime is copyrighting the best intro chord sequences in the 1960's, and since then everyone has to make slight variations or they would be called out for copying. We can't make good music today due to copyrights...


>The music is contrived and laughably bad

That never stopped chart-topping artists...


>Some genres are formulaic by design, but the draw for so many others is the human experience and the inventiveness.

Those genres are safe (for a while), but they're also a puny portion of the market. American pop music is totally going to be replaced by AI. It's been nothing but awful, formulaic crap for the last 25 years, so there's no way that AI-generated music could possibly be worse.


>>> Can AI Write Pop Songs?

Doesn't matter. There is no value in the songs, they are easy to write and many are written in a day with the premise of becoming the next pop song.

Pop is about distribution and marketing. Control it and your songs will be the next thing played everywhere.


> Why can't performers just stay the same forever, producing a never-ending sequence of similar but distinct works?

Because they're artists. Even the record company-manufactured acts consider themselves artists.

On a human level, they're already performing the same pieces of music thousands of times - in rehearsals, concerts, recordings. It must get incredibly tedious after a while. You want them to write the same type of music all their lives as well? You monster! :-P


> Anyone with even a vague understanding of music can write a song on the same level as a pop song.

Ok, why don’t you prove it by writing a hit pop song? Come back to this thread when you have your gold record, I’ll wait


> There’s only so many notes and very few chords used in pop music.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old man, I find very sad the fact that pop songs have become nothing more than 4 chords just repeating over and over, with a thin veneer of inconsequential melody over them, serving a never ending stream of banal lyrics. Is this really the best of what award-winning musicians like Sheeran et al can do? I mean, they don't even bother changing the harmony for the chorus, and where has the bridge gone?


> pop songs seem to be becoming extremely short sicne only a snippet is needed to blow up

That is approximately what happened during the punk-rock era.

A bunch of musicians were tired of overly-complex neo-classical jerkoff that was popular in the age of Deep Purple, Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull and just decided to write three-chord songs with a catchy melody and get rid of all the complexity.

Perhaps this is an introduction to some kind of neo-punk era? Probably not, though.


> I hate how people decide something is an inevitable eternal cycle that started in the 20th century. Recorded music hasn't been around long enough to think that platitudes like this actually have any meaningful content.

Maybe, but doesn't the same complaint exist about other media, too? 'Kids these days and their [books|music|art|clothes|dance styles]'


>Is the Billboard Hot 100 any more or less innovative in 2024 than it was in 2004, or 1974?

Yes, amazingly less so. Less innovative and less diverse music styles.


> But it is extraordinarily difficult to have such a mastery of composition and understanding of what music is already familiar to people

The problem with this argument IMHO is that if it were true, one would in fact be able to just bang out hits by developing such mastery. But music hits get popular primarily on the basis of luck, survivor bias, branding, etc, not strictly based on artists' composition skills. There are plenty of very talented one-hit wonders, and even criticisms that popular music is "manufactured" (implying that it is relatively easy to just follow some vague formula of 4/4, II-V-I chord progressions and lyrics about love and end up with something that resembles a hit).


> Their influence was organic. Today's music trends are forced.

This is 100% purestrain revisionism.


>Well today's lyrics are worse in at least one objective way: number of unique words.

That's not a good metric.


>The lyrics to this song are like the anthem of Holden Caufield... a wry, disillusioned, antisocial, anticonsumption, post-war love song. Anyone who ever thought otherwise, is a turd who only loved this song because it was Top 40 and reminiscent of some lost High School dance, despite the fact that the song itself is completely anti-pop.

Thanks for the most cliched and tired interpretation of the song that could be...


> Without any examples for or to the contrary, I'm not convinced this is true.

There are two volumes of Songwriters on Songwriting and I guess I could introduce you to all my songwriting buddies if you're so inclined.


> The average person listening to Taylor Swift is thinking about Taylor Swift, and not what they're listening to.

I think this is a grand oversimplification. Personality certainly _contributes_ to pop stardom, but the music is still #1. Before anyone knew who Taylor Swift was, they connected with her through one or more song.

> A lot of creative detail goes into the production, arrangement, and the vocal performance. Not the MIDI file.

Of course, but even having an autonomous "songwriter" that could write _a_ hit would be a gamechanger for music (though obviously most immediately applicable to top 40 / pop)

> You need a model of mind to do that last one

I disagree. Machines already produce what would otherwise be considered "experimental" music, you just need some deep reinforcement learning to know what has mass appeal.

next

Legal | privacy