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> I'm not asserting that IP owners currently owe property taxes.

Except you did when you called them tax evaders.



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> Guess what? You can't tax something that's not controlled by the US government.

Uh... you might want to be a little less brazen and loud about your tax evasion.


> have a complete disregard for tax law.

BTW, you have no idea what you're talking about. I mean, none:

- foreign creators don't owe tax in the US

- tax is on goods, not services. No good, no tax.

- most artists don't pay personal tax because they're below the minimum

But Patreon is collecting, and keeping, the tax that leaks, just like ebay does now.


> they just dodged their taxes poorly.

Exactly.


> Presumably the content creators are paying taxes just like the rest of us

Correct. This content creator has also been a software engineer for 20 years. Paid a lot of taxes. Not sure why I'm supposed to owe anything to anyone.


>That seems like the flaw here, not the other thing. Why should the US government have any entitlement to tax activity that occurs entirely outside their jurisdiction?

Tax evasion doesn't cease to be tax evasion because you don't feel like you owe the government taxes.


> They do that for reasons that have nothing to do with not paying their taxes...

If that's the cost of getting away with it, most people are not going to be willing to pay it.

> still, if you need an even ore obvious example... http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/

That's not the enforcement cost, that's the potential revenue gain from increased enforcement.


>> The IRS comes after you because you're behind on sales taxes.

Nitpicking here, but that would be the state revenue department, not the IRS. The IRS doesn't collect any sales taxes afaik.


>Actions that are deemed to have been taken solely for their tax effects are clearly and explicitly deemed tax evasion by the IRS

This is just not true.


> But I still call it tax evasion colloquially, because I'm just an average Joe who can't prosecute anyone so my legal opinion doesn't matter. My judgement is not whether it's illegal, but whether it's immoral and scummy.

Do you contribute to a 401(k)? Deduct home mortgage interest from your taxes? If so, you've participated in legal tax avoidance, too! I don't think either of those are scummy.


> This whole area of law seems utterly absurd.

Only if you don't understand it

> Did they just commit retroactive tax fraud?

That's not how fraud works and that's not what the IRS is trying to do

Fraud: you have to knowingly misrepresent your position aka lie about something. Making a mistake on your taxes is not fraud (source - I am a US citizen and have received letters from the IRS for making a mistake). It is definitely not fraud to be caught in unexpected IP theft.

IRS: they are not trying to get people in "gotcha" situations. They just want to collect the fair amount of revenue that people owe the federal govt and their punishment is proportional.


> You realize the top 1% have stolen >$10T from us overdecades of tax evasion

You're gonna have to provide a citation for that kind of claim.


Said the the tax evader.

>It is simply their desire now to not pay taxes, not pay their workers well, to clone 3rd party vendor's products under their own brands, to copy the occasional SaaS hosted on AWS etc.

It's "simply their desire" not to pay taxes? You think the IRS accepts that? Do you think they just write in "sry guys, we'd rather not pay"?

No, they aren't paying taxes on this money because it's offsetting prior losses. This is a perfectly reasonable way to structure the tax code, and it only seems like malfeasance to you because you haven't bothered to understand it.


> So at most they are guilty of collecting and not turning over taxes.

"At most"? Do you believe that collecting others' taxes and keeping them for your own profit is somehow better than tax dodging?


> Yes that’s the point I’m making.

And that point is wrong. The IRS just wants you to pay your taxes, period, end of the story.


> I can now be convicted of tax evasion for refusing to pay

Yes, for refusing to pay. If you concede to the IRS interpretation, you just pay the amount you owe plus interest and fees.

> this arbitrary retroactive tax.

that's not what it is


> That they actually incurred the losses they claim to have incurred, so they get a tax break. The taxpayer is defrauded.

Did they not incur such losses? Did they claim to delete the movie but actually kept a backup? Granted, the loss is self-inflicted, but that's not a relevant factor in the tax code.


>Edit: are you really suggested that people like John Gotti and El Chapo declare income from criminal activities and detail how they made that once audited

No, I'm suggesting one of the examples used in your premise is wrong. The legality of income has nothing to do with paying your taxes from the IRS's perspective.


> I am not an accountant but presumably any material issuance of some sort of scrip that could be exchanged for goods would be seen as tax evasion.

It's not. You just have to pay taxes on it.

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