I understand his decision though, show was becoming a bit redundant, he did point out a lot of good stuff throughout the way. Less shows for me to watch on 5by5 now, this one and Grubber where the most interesting ones IMO.
I'm pretty disappointed with this move. I was getting a little tired of the Talk Show on 5By5 but it was still enjoyable because Dan brought humor and structure to the show.
I remember when Let's Make Mistakes split off and formed a new podcast network it felt odd to me at the time, like they used 5By5 to get some initial audience and then took them for themselves. For some reason it fit with the impression I get that Mike Monteiro is an asshole.
With this move I am done with the Talk Show. I just dont care any more.
Has there been some sort of falling out between Arment, Siracusa and Gruber - they all left 5by5 within a short time of the Gruber move, and in my opinion their shows are now worse.
for anyone like me who had no idea what 5by5 was, it seems like it's a talk show that Gruber was part of, then he left to do another, or something like that. meh
was unable to find reference to said shenanigans though, which was disappointing
I think for the two recent guys that left, they were just burned out on having to carry all the content of a weekly show alone. Now their new podcast is more of a conversation and they can just BS without much prep.
For Gruber, I assume it was just money. Someone else offered him more or an ownership stake that he wasn't going to get from 5x5.
This is sad news. Dan was the one who balanced Gruber's cockiness. Oh well, though, 5by5 will be fine with its other good shows. Oh John Siracusa, please don't leave!
I definitely understand the feeling that the podcast has become stale. I still enjoy it very much, but topics have had to become more and more specific lately and as such I feel the show runs the risk of losing its "timeless" quality. However, I do hope that Marco considers staying with 5by5 when he does decide what he wants to do next. Mule Radio is great too but I really love the dynamic that Dan brings to all of his podcasts.
I'd bet that's the core of it. Gruber probably thought he deserved more money, and Mule was willing to give it to him. The 5by5 hosts bring the lion's share of the value to the network, and I can't blame them if they want to get paid as such. It isn't screwing 5by5, per se, but perhaps a little scummy (as Gruber might write)?
UPDATE: Other explanations I'd also bet on (might as well hedge, right?):
(1) Gruber wanted to be with his friends on the Mule network
(2) 5by5 was getting a little crowded, and Gruber wanted the Talk Show to stick out a bit more.
I mostly agree. I started listening from the beginning and loved the deep leanring/CS/physicist/neuroscientist/philosopher guests.
I think he began running out of those people or just wanted to expand. Some of the new format guests are great, but I skip many episodes now, whereas before I enjoyed 99% of them.
Still, at its best it remains one of the most informative and insightful podcasts I know of, largely due to the guest expertise.
People hate change. Worse, people hate surprising change.
Mike is mostly mocking the people upset with this on Twitter, but if you enjoy a show made up of two people, people get annoyed when one party leaves with no explanation.
Lots of people say "they don't OWE us an explanation". I disagree. People invested in 5by5 through buying shirts, buying the app, listening to ads and using their promo codes, and the time they spent listening and interacting with the network. And when you sign off a show saying another one is coming, and then switch networks and drop 1/2 of the show with no explanation, that's rude.
The way this went down, there's two possibilities:
1. Dan had no idea, which is why he got the shirts printed and TTS was still on 5by5's recording schedule as of Gruber's announcement it moved to Mule.
2. Dan was in on it, but had agreed with Gruber and Mule to keep it secret, for whatever reason.
Probably coincidental, but TTH was a tent pole show, and Big Week appears to be one as well.
I also think that bringing in Dalrymple might have made 5by5 feel too crowded. To my knowledge, of the 5 or so major podcasts on 5by5, Talk Show was the only one hosted by a blogger. (Though I'm hesitant to call John a blogger because he rarely writes original content. 95% of DF is links or quotes with one sentence of analysis, but that's neither here nor there) Dalrymple was only the second blogger, and Gruber must have felt that Jim was stealing his thunder.
Frankly, I think it's for the best. The Talk Show has been going down hill, and can't hold a candle to B&A or Hypercritical.
Seriously though, it's John's show and he's free to take it to another network. I just _really_ hope that this transition was done in a respectful manner and that there isn't bad blood between 5by5 and Mule.
A little background: Let's Make Mistakes, Mule Radio's main show, got started with 5by5's help. Let's Make Mistakes was a 5by5 network show for it's first year of existence. It garnered all of the listenership and cross promotion that comes with being part of 5by5. After a year of getting traction, Mule split the show off into its own podcasting network, essentially becoming a competitor to 5by5. If Mule now aggressively poached The Talk Show from 5by5 then it was certainly a dick move.
Of course, we don't have all the details and this is just speculation. So again, I hope this was done in a way that respected Dan and 5by5.
I give Dan Benjamin huge respect for doing this, he certainly didn't have any obligation to do so. Gruber and Mike Monteiro on the other hand have basically given the audience a massive fuck you. I am not really surprised by that but it is a disappointment and has put me off checking out the new Talk Show going forward, or indeed any Mule Radio podcasts. Dan will be fine anyway, 5by5 has some of the best shows on the internet.
I imagine that this is money related. The Talk Show was one of the original shows. 5by5 has grown a lot since then. Dan has put ton of work in to his company. And it shows. Perhaps as a business 5by5 is doing much better now then it was when it started out. Perhaps gruber was still operating under the original agreement him and dan had when they first teamed up. Maybe gruber is no longer satisfied with their agreement seeing how well the talk show franchisee is doing.
This seemed more apparent when Dan teased him a bit for not wearing the 5by5 shirt. Seemed like a sore point.
Dan left me with a small impression that gruber what "phoning it in" by commenting on the fact that gruber didn't dress up for the show. Dan, it's a radio show. Good luck guys.
I'm sad to see this happen as Ryan not only produces great screencasts but shows the trends and popular gems along the way. I respect his decision, though - I know what burnout feels like and it's the biggest mental burden one can have. Good luck, Ryan!
'Build and Analyze' has not become 'stale and repetitive' in my opinion and I will miss the show. From my own blogging experience, however, I understand that Marco wants to end his successful show on a high note. Being the host of a weekly podcast show is quite a burden and his other projects (in a wider sense, i.e. Instapaper, The Magazine, wife and child etc.) are probably challenging enough. In addition, the show has probably become less important from a marketing perspective. Anyway, thanks a lot to Dan and Marco for many great episodes! :)
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