I think this also varies based on how busy/crowded the coffee shop is. I don't feel too guilty camping when half the tables are empty, but there are many downtown coffee places that are near capacity most of the time.
At any rate, I'm enough of a coffee fiend that I get a new beverage every hour or two anyway. :)
I guess I might frequent busier places - I don't think that with my 'rule' I often go over your limit either.
Having said that, if I were a coffee shop owner, if the place felt empty I would rather have people sitting in it even if they're not continually buying, just to keep up the atmosphere.
I do two things at coffee shops:
- go outside the busy times (ie morning and lunch trade peak times).
- Tell the owner that if they need the table then to let me know and I dont have any problem moving at all since i know I'm only going to be drinking a few coffees.
Yeah, I do this too, though I try not to stay for more than two or three hours, and make sure I always have something in my cup. Fear of getting overcaffeinated drives me to other places.
I do think a shared promotional community between the coffee shops around here (Seattle) would be good, but most are doing pretty well so no one feels any pressure.
Maybe I'm not in cafes enough to understand this, but how long are laptop users camping out on tables?
I can see if they're checking a quick email while having a coffee, but experiences I've had and maukdaddy above show that people are camping out a lot longer than that first cup. So are they staying all day? Are they purchasing more beverages?
The local coffee shop I frequent encourages the regulars to stay as long as they want, no "drink minimum" or anything. Having lots of people sitting around is good for business. They've gone out of their way to put in power outlets and benches/tables. There's even one out on the deck we can use if we want.
They keep the music kinda loud also to encourage a lively atmosphere. It has a real community feel to it. I can trace probably 80% of the money I've made in the last eight years to connections I've made here.
This is actually something I'm super conscious about. I travel to visit my parents somewhat often, and I work a few days remotely when I do. I've had a bit of luck rotating through a few spots. If I feel like I've exhausted those, I'll post up in a larger chain like a Starbucks — I feel somewhat less guilty when I know I'm not taking up a seat in a locally owned business. Most places will pull decaf espresso shots or have pastries of some sort, so I'm not just drinking coffee all day.
Aside: If anyone wants to swap coffee shop recommendations in Pittsburgh, feel free to send me a message.
I have a similar ratio, but I would welcome a time limit. Web I go its usually just to hang out for a bit, read a book, and maybe comment about the passing customers on Twitter. But if it is one of those one or two in ten times I plan to stay and there are people at every comfy chair with laptop plugged in, I'll leave without buying anything. So I guess we have opposite philosophies there. I don't think it would at all affect my patronage when I want a coffee to go.
I completely agree with you, so what I do is to find cafes that are not very popular which is probably a win-win: I hate sitting in packed cafes and the smaller cafe sells some more coffee+snacks by doubling as my office.
I hack at a coffee shop with some frequency, and have built a sufficient rapport with the staff that I feel I can get honest answers out of a few of them.
Starbucks aims to be the "third place". Home, Work, Starbucks. That's what _they_ want, they want to be inviting, they want to have good wifi, new stores should have very convenient power. So it's not like they didn't plan on this happening. But they do have numbers to meet.
- They do complain about people who buy a small coffee then site for five hours. (so keep buying)
- They seem less concerned with what you're buying, more concerned with you doing it with some frequency (unless it's the cheapest thing on the menu)
- If you have a loyalty card, your free refill appear the same to them as if you bought something, so don't feel bad there.
- They hate people who shout into skype, listen to music through speakers, or take over multiple seats (just as much as you do)
- Leave 10 minutes before closing.
- Tip.
I think there's also work that cafés can do to better manage their space. I look at patrons in two camps: campers and drinkers.
Campers show up laptop and stay for a long time.
Drinkers want to come in, buy a coffee, sit down and drink it, maybe with a friend, then leave.
Having seating targeted at both groups helps them make effective use of the space. My old starbucks had nice bar-style seating facing a window. Narrow ledge big enough for a paperback and a coffee, not big enough for a laptop. This fit in a lot of patrons per square foot (compared to a full table & chair). "Campers" could fill up appropriate seating, then "drinkers" could show up and still see great seats for themselves. Drinkers who came early often saw the nice seats by the window and filled up there first, leaving more tables for campers.
My current coffee shop only has seating that works for campers. So the place can fill up with the laptop crowd, a drinker can walk in then walk back out. Or it can fill up with Drinkers, and lose campers the same way.
When I'm in a non-chain coffee shop, I make sure to tip well and to make sure to keep an eye on how active the shop is. Plus, buy a coffee or a small thing to eat every so often if I plan on being there for awhile.
If it gets busy and its been a decent amount of time (30-45m-ish) since my last purchase, I'll just head out.
The exception to this rule is the coffee place in my college's library; there's plenty of seating in the rest of the building. If I'm on a couch there, I tend to stay there until I'm done with whatever I'm working on.
I actually can't do that at my B&N - the tables are over-subscribed. Tiny tables, all with campers at them. Its actually the bane of every coffee shop - students who buy one cheap coffee and camp all day.
I'm not suggesting that you're doing something wrong the minute you pull out your laptop. I don't think anybody is. It's all about how much of the finite seating resource is consumed for how much business. Somewhere down-thread is another comment about the purchase price for a cup of coffee being only partly about the coffee but mostly about the experience. Yes, and that's just as true for the person who only needs to sit down for ten minutes. They paid just as much for their coffee as the person who has been there all afternoon, they have just as much right to enjoy that experience, but all-afternoon guy is effectively crowding out dozens of such others. That's simply not fair.
I'm generally not affected by this myself, BTW. I don't go to coffee shops very often, and have only brought my laptop (sans power supply) a few times. The longest I've stayed has probably been a bit more than an hour. I've done more "squatting" at my local McDonalds, which has better WiFi and is practically empty in the mid-morning so nobody cares. However, I consider it a basic rule that if somebody else is waiting for something and you've had your turn then you should yield. If you don't feel that you've had your own fair turn yet, then by all means make the newcomer wait. No problem at all. This is only about the people who seem to feel that they're above that basic rule.
A netiquette for coffee shops, I wholeheartedly agree.
I work at coffee shops a lot; I keep sitting there when I can see there are plenty of empty tables - that means my sitting there is a net positive for the Cafe: I might consume more, and often do. And having customers is better than having none, it attracts other people.
If I see that many customers are coming and that I might actually block people from getting a table, I leave.
Only exceptions is Starbucks because its a huge chain and they have always had an official sit as long as you want policy which has worked out very well for them. I am not sure about the actual business trade off but I often end up at Starbucks because I know I can sit there as long as I want - this business might otherwise have gone to independents. I realize though that what works for a large chain might not work for the coffee shop on the corner.
It may depend on the coffee shop. There is a local cafe near me that gets customers, but I've never really seen it full. I'm sure they would love to have a crowd of people hanging out buying drinks, but also making it appear more popular and a nice place to hang out. I've been to cafes before that were silent and just awkward to be in because it was just me, my friend, and the barista.
> Although, that plan is faulty now, given that I could easily get 6-8 hours of work out of my Macbook, thanks to the M1 chips.
Heh, I was going to say, the other day I was able to use my M1 Pro laptop for nearly 8 hours and it still had around 30% battery remaining.
It's like leaving your place vacant because you ARE leaving your place vacant. That's a good thing.
If a coffee shop is so busy that you won't have a place when you get back then take a break and come back when things are quieter. Or pay for a coworking space.
(I remember trying to get a table with friends at Blue Bottle years ago... each one was occupied by a loner staring at a laptop, nursing a coffee, and ignoring everything else. It was sad.)
I did this for two years. The key is to switch it up. I'm lucky enough that there are many different coffee shops in my area that I can go to. The general rule of thumb, if you're planning on spending multiple hours in a single place, is to buy a little something each 1 to 2 hours. I've seen many, many people buy a single tall coffee, nothing else, and then sit in the coffee shop for 4+ hours. These people are jerks.
At any rate, I'm enough of a coffee fiend that I get a new beverage every hour or two anyway. :)
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