I am in Vegas right now, and I can tell you: most nerds I know would die in this heat. Turn your oven on and stick your head into it: that's what it feels like.
I remember when I first visited San Francisco: I felt like it was home. Right then I decided that I'd move there some day. But Vegas doesn't feel that way. The entire city seems like a mirage: from the fake Eiffel Tower to the fake Statue of Liberty, it all seems so superficial.
For the locals' sake I hope Hsieh can pull it off, but I'm skeptical.
It's too bad, because I really wish Vegas could somehow magically turn into a tech jobs hub. It's got a lot going for it: No state income tax. Cheap housing. Minimal regulation. Cheap, relatively private LLCs. World class restaurants. World class entertainment/shows (even if touristy). Casinos, if you're into it. If NorCal is a heaven for people who like outdoor activities, then Vegas is the heaven for people who like the indoors. The only down side is it's really hot, but going indoors fixes this.
If my employer opened an office anywhere near Las Vegas, I'd list my house and call the moving truck the next day.
In my personal experience, Las Vegas also happens to be one of the nerdiest cities in America. The Luxor hotel and casino, one of the biggest and oldest on the strip, is also one of the first major establishments to host e-sports events.
I’m also consistently impressed with how many comic book shops, card shops, retro video game shops and video game bars there are. Even for Japanese rhythm arcade games, a relatively obscure hobby that I enjoy, one of the best communities in the US was located in Las Vegas at a place called Gemini Arcade Palace. It has since closed down, but a couple others have already taken its place, and the community is stronger than ever.
I feel like this might be related to the “refreshing lack of class consciousness” the author mentioned in the article. Nobody faults anyone for being a nerd (or drag queen, or crackhead, etc.) in Las Vegas.
It's bad but it's not that bad. Vegas is cool if your definition of cool matches what a 50 years old recently divorced person with too much money/time and not enough hobbies finds cool.
Dubai is cool if your definition of cool is "money" (and you're fairly tolerant with slave labor and human right violation)
The reason nice places like SF and NYC are so expensive is that nobody is trying to make more nice places. Tony Hsieh is doing a great thing to trying to make a new nice place.
It's too bad the blocks in Vegas are so large (looks like 380x480) and the streets so wide. It'll be really hard to ever make that appealing, especially given the climate.
Like discardorama, I am in Vegas right now. Possibly unlike discardorama, I was born and raised in this town.
Note: I don't live here now. I left in 1986 to go to work at Convex in Dallas, and now live in Austin. (after a 7 year break from the VC-funded madness when I lived in Hawaii 2004-2011.)
But while here, I'm working outside all day, every day. (Effecting a repossession of some heavy equipment for my father, and fixing said equipment so it can be transported. Said equipment is the remaining artifacts of what was a 50 year-old water well drilling business located in Las Vegas.)
Yes, in the 115F heat, and I'm 51, and have survived both an ascending aortic dissection and an associated MI.
It hasn't killed me yet.
The problem with Las Vegas isn't the heat. The problems are: lack of tech structure (why I left), and water. There simply will not be enough water to support a city of any size here.
I thought the same until I spent more time in Reno. The cost of living increased too much and the WIND is the worst thing about the area. Constant 40+ mph gusts.
I don't know much about Vegas, perhaps it's better.
I used to live in Las Vegas, and before that SF. Downtown Las Vegas (not the strip) looks a lot like SF's bar rows. Once it became a tiny tech hub the usual culture was imported, grafted onto the surrounding Las Vegas milieu.
Sometimes I wonder how quickly things could collapse in California if a place like Las Vegas gained enough critical mass in non gaming/convention businesses.
I would take the oppressive heat over the oppressive fog and piss smell of SF if it had the same job opportunities. I know the reason me and the majority of my friends pack into this peninsula like sardines to pay massive taxes, rents, and general COL expenses is purely because of the industry.
Definitely a chicken and egg problem but maybe if the state continues with anti-business and high tax policies, they may accidentally go over board and cause an exodus.
Cheap housing, cheap decent food options, access to all-you-can-eat-entertainment, relative proximity to SoCal/beach all factor in as well. But the Summer is miserable (IMO) and the people here just don't give a crap about life, so it can be pretty draining to live in Vegas as well.
I visited maybe 4-5 years ago. I had just read about Hsieh, and his business philosophy, and his attempt to revitalize downtown Las Vegas.
It was ... odd.
My immediate impression was favorable. A very quirky looking area -- a small outdoor mall, with the buildings framing a little courtyard area. Built out of shipping containers, or something that looked like that.
But the businesses. Each one was quirky in the extreme. A combination convenience/art supply store. A store selling nothing but socks. A store selling used luxury goods. Maybe one of these could survive in a high traffic area of a conventional mall, but there was nothing to draw anyone. There was a bar that had some odd twist, but I don't remember what the twist was.
I didn't see how the area could survive. It wasn't right in the middle of downtown LV, so I don't think they could rely on people visiting there. I'm sure there were people like me who somehow heard of it, and went to visit. But one visit was plenty. There was absolutely nothing to draw me back. And it was pretty deserted.
I’ve gone to Vegas a half dozen times for business and conferences. It’s one of the worst places I can imagine. No plants, no walking. Everything is big and loud and obnoxious and expensive.
I can’t imagine ever wanting to live there. In fact anyplace I would want to live is basically the binary opposite of Vegas in every way.
Now there's an interesting idea. Las Vegas has many things going for it as a potential tech hub, including a large metro area, dirt-cheap real estate, a lax attitude towards regulation, easy access to the big west-coast hubs, and no shortage of ways for the young and single to keep themselves entertained. What it doesn't have is an intellectual atmosphere (now there's an understatement) or a critical mass of smart people (if I move there, are my friends gonna be croupiers and strippers?).
Of all the cities mentioned in this thread, I like Las Vegas best as the next Austin (if not the next San Francisco).
Lived there three years during COVID after rejecting LA (where I grew up) because of ridiculous cost of living, crime, traffic, etc. Vegas has problems but overall not a bad place to live.
Pros: Cheap compared to other cities. No state income tax. Good airport and air connections. Lots of deals for locals if you bother to figure out the rules (so can be cheap to eat out). Plenty of good food.
Cons: Blazing hot or freezing cold desert climate. Terrible public transportation, too hot or cold (for me) to bicycle, too spread out (and hot/cold) to walk anywhere. Lots of weirdos, drunks, pathological gamblers, scammers. Maybe some of the worst and most dangerous driving I've ever witnessed outside of SE Asia.
It's hot, so people aren't really out. There's no sidewalks, so you just take a cab to go everywhere or go from buildings to buildings using bridges. It's all about living a luxurious life. If you've been to Vegas, it's like living in these hotels 24/7, or at least that's how I imagined living there after my trip there.
Oh and of course the culture and the politics there... you really have to look the other way.
Reno is pretty sweet, pretty decent outdoor activities. Up and coming downtown too. Plus your friends who stay in the Bay Area can visit you on the weekend during the ski season.
I remember when I was in semiconductor sales engineer I visited International Gaming Technology out there (video game slot machines). It was surprisingly not very desert like at all in the spring. The fields were covered in green grass.
I was in Las Vegas for Future Insights Live just a couple weeks ago and a friend - Frank Gruber of TechCocktail - gave me a tour.
First of all, it is nothing like the Strip. While there are casinos and hotels, etc, they're a fraction of the size of the main chaos. As a result, it feels closer to somewhere you could actually live.
We went to Container Park* (and numerous other places) and they're bustling. I don't know how many are locals vs tourists but the sheer number of people (families, couples, etc) hanging out made me think locals.
I moved to Austin in 2010 and it feels like a more embryonic version of that. But in five years, Austin has had a handful of IPOs, a few major acquisitions, and most major SF companies are setting up shop. If Las Vegas got a similar cycle going - either by starting companies or importing people - it could get some great things going. Either way, it needs to be thought of as a 5, 10 or even 20 year plan. Not something to do in three years.
* By the way, the fire-breathing praying mantis alone almost makes it worth the trip. Even at 20-30 feet away, you can feel the heat when it shoots. It's amazing.
I remember when I first visited San Francisco: I felt like it was home. Right then I decided that I'd move there some day. But Vegas doesn't feel that way. The entire city seems like a mirage: from the fake Eiffel Tower to the fake Statue of Liberty, it all seems so superficial. For the locals' sake I hope Hsieh can pull it off, but I'm skeptical.
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