I'm just coming to the end of my degree, but something that amazed me was just how many of my school friends changed their degrees in the first year, or dropped out of university all together. I think it must have been nearly 50% of my friends changed significantly what they were doing within the first year, many within the first semester.
My brother has also just started university and he told me he's seen exactly the same thing. Of the 9 close friends that went off to university at the same time as him, only 2 are still on their courses. A few dropped out, most changed courses but won't be able to start the new courses until the next academic year.
Very few people know what they want to do at 18, and many don't know what studying their chosen subject will really be like.
I was really surprised by this because I knew what course I wanted to do at university when I was 13, I thought it was Electronic Engineering, until I found out that Computer Science existed, at which point I immediately recognised that as what I wanted to do. I assumed everyone was like that, but I have friends who at 21-23 are still trying to work out what they want to do.
I finished an undergraduate degree in 1980, when there were around 25000 undergraduates [1] p13/14. Now there are at least 10 times that many. Inevitably, the system has had to change to reflect that increase in volume within the span of a single career - quite a lot of change.
Not sure where the answer lies, but an increasingly large proportion of my teenager students are opting not to go to university directly at 18, so there could be a 'correction' on the way over the next generation or so.
You are totally right, but I would add that even people who take advantage of university also still are only going have been able to hit very few subjects deeply by the 5th or 6th semester.
They are still only 21 years old, and just literally haven't had as many afternoons to spend tinkering.
I left university over 10 years ago, but I'm still aware of those friends who were in my year, vs others who were a year or two ahead or behind.
People from my year are the ones I lived with, did group projects with, worked until midnight trying to solve a difficult task that had been set, celebrated the last exam with, etc.
I certainly don't know the year for everyone. Students I mostly saw at parties, who studied different subjects (or went to different universities, for it was London) could easily be my year ±3 or more.
For most people, first years at university is also the first years of independent adulthood, with all its challenges. I sometimes wonder if universities would work better at educating people if everyone was given a year or two to focus on getting their shit together - interests, romances, whatnot - and only then the real education would start.
Some people go to university when they're older. Some take time off. Some can't decide on a major and are in school for a decade. Plenty of explanations.
A key thing I look at in graduates is what they did at university. I'm less concerned if they flunked their course just before finals, the things I'm looking for are
1) Independent living -- did they go to university a long way from where they lived? If they treated it as 3 more years of school, they've missed a major point. I'm not going to be parenting them as they are dropped into the real world at the deep end.
2) Extra curricular activities at uni -- did they do student radio? Or theatre? Or music? This indicates they aren't just doing what they think is required of them, but have the ability to think for themselves.
Kids straight out of school are a massive risk, not only can they do the job, but can adapt to an adult world? Graduates that just did 3 more years of school are the same risk.
Kids that dropped out at 16 and worked in a garage for a few years and solved some problems the business had? Brilliant.
part of it is simply due to the inertia of already being in an academic environment. students commit 4 years to do their undergraduate degrees. instead of pursuing the unknown (ie. searching for a job, moving potentially, meeting new people, becoming more independent, etc.) students stick with what they already know in academia, albeit in a different, more serious form.
I just graduated (this summer). Previously I wasn't sold on university and did a year long internship with IBM in the UK. They offered me a full time 'degree-apprenticeship' in cyber security or consulting, but I instead left and studied literature at a UK University instead.
I often think the biggest difference between a graduate and non graduate is three years. As an 18 year old there is no way I would have been able to withstand the culture for another three years at IBM without it significantly affecting me (positively or negatively), but at 21 I feel much more mature and ready for a career. In many cases, does University just function as a waiting room in which young people can mature?
I agree. Lots of my friends have gotten degrees, but many spent five or six years in college for various reasons. So, they didn't graduate until 23 or 24.
I went to university at 16. It was like a wonderful playground, so many subjects and areas and it was a great time.
I ended up liking it so much, I spent 9 years there drifting to 300+ credits :-b
I cannot imagine going at 14. That must have been pretty weird. At 16 I was fine and the biggest issue was the dating and (underage) drinking mismatch.
For me going at 16 was an incredible relief. I was incredibly, incredibly bored and unchallenged in school until that point. I wish there wasn't such a stigma about it because I imagine there are lots of other people who had the same level of terrible frustration.
To everyone who's saying his university entry at sixteen is implausible: actually, it's fairly common. I started uni at sixteen (B of Technology, RMIT). So did my best friend (BCS, UTS). My partner started at fourteen (BCS, U of Canterbury). Anecdotal yes, but it's not exactly unheard of.
I think 18-24 is just way too young for most people to study at a university (at least math/physics-based ones). I don't have a better solution, but only about 6-7 years after graduating I realized I would then have enjoyed these classes and learned from them much much more.
The elephant in the corner of the room is that all degrees are not equal. I remember the teachers at my secondary school saying that it didn't matter what you study at university because you are "learning to learn". But even my 17-year-old self could see that that was obviously nonsense.
The brutal truth is that you are either studying for a career or you are pursuing a hobby full time for 3 years.
"An important, but tangential point to note is that unlike the US, ...People join colleges already deciding (without taking a single course) what they plan to get a degree in."
Isn't that how it works in the US as well? Don't students join colleges already deciding what they plan to get a degree in? I'm from Canada. When we apply to university we have to apply to a specific degree. First year courses are already tailored to a particular degree path. If that's not the case in the US, when is it that you actually choose your degree? I always hated the notion that 18 year old people coming out of high school are expected to know what course they want to target for the next four years.
There's a lot of countries where it's not normal to keep going to school until you are 18.
In New Zealand, you can leave school when you're 16 and start an apprenticeship. I think that by 16, most people will know if they're definitely not going to be going to university, and I think that 11 years of schooling is enough to set people up with the basics for life. It's the point where (at least in New Zealand) you start specialising, picking specific subjects that are going to help you with, or be required for, university
My brother has also just started university and he told me he's seen exactly the same thing. Of the 9 close friends that went off to university at the same time as him, only 2 are still on their courses. A few dropped out, most changed courses but won't be able to start the new courses until the next academic year.
Very few people know what they want to do at 18, and many don't know what studying their chosen subject will really be like.
I was really surprised by this because I knew what course I wanted to do at university when I was 13, I thought it was Electronic Engineering, until I found out that Computer Science existed, at which point I immediately recognised that as what I wanted to do. I assumed everyone was like that, but I have friends who at 21-23 are still trying to work out what they want to do.
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