Sure, they've attempted female-targeted comic books. They were bland, pandering, and universally sucked. They thought they knew what women wanted, and they don't.
If they want more female readership, here's all they need to do: Make the same comics you've been making, just without the giganto tits and sexy poses. Women enjoy comics for the same reason as men: great art, great story lines, and lots of action. It's the sexualization of female characters that excludes them.
Except that it's not true that no comics with "normal" female heroines exist. We had Yoko Tsuno when we were kids, for example. The most recent comics I bought were Buffy and Fray. You don't have to buy cheesy sex comics - I don't.
That lots of men enjoy comics with exaggerated sex symbols has no bearing on the offering for the female target democratic.
Same goes for books and movies and so on btw.
In the same vein, it doesn't bother me as a man that there are thousands of women's magazines, and only very few men's magazines. I just don't care - nobody is forcing me to buy them, after all. In fact there are zillions of products in the world I don't care for, and that doesn't make me feel discriminated against.
With respect to books, there are vast selections that mainly target men to balance out the romance book genre. With respect to comics, the selection targeting women is much smaller. It's not at all the same.
Or alternately, "comics for women", just like "video games for women" and a thousand other products that just take something dull and derivative, slap a coat of pink paint on it and call it "done" aren't bought by women because they're smart enough to recognize crap, even when it's meant for them.
The author isn't asking for "Comics for women", he's asking for "Comics that aren't repellant to women".
> I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books.
When the vast majority of their output is targeting a mostly male demographic, and being sold almost exclusively in an environment that attracts mostly men, that may be so. But it is a situation of their own making by making their product offering so niche.
> are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS
... in the US. Unsurprisingly, given that they mostly sell products not targeting women... in the US.
Basically, if they want to change that and widen their market - which is clearly possible - given that this is a US pecularity - they need to be willing to invest in it over time. Their alternative is to fade into irrelevance, given that they've managed to even lose a lot of the younger demographic too in the US.
I think that was the point of the article. Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience.
Also, there's a difference between comics and romance novels. Comics are a medium, while romance novels are just one type of book. A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men.
> Comic book authors don't consider that women might want to read their books, and so they unwittingly cut women out of their audience.
I'm guessing Marvel, DC et al have done a lot of research over the years and found out yep, it's pretty much only males that read comic books. They've attempted female-targeted comic books over the years and they don't sell. Not really worth spinning your wheels on something that's not going to happen.
> A book store will have many types of books including romance novels, but comic book stores may have just one type of comic, and it's usually for men.
Men and women shop at book stores, so there's that. Comic book stores (are there more than a couple hundred left in the US anyway? Who cares) are really only frequented by men because WOMEN DON'T CARE ABOUT COMICS. No amount of hand-wringing over this issue is going to change it. Sometimes it really just is "men do this, women do that". It doesn't need to be over-analyzed.
the portrayal of men is just as dumb and unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy comics quite a bit (Infinity Guantlet anyone? Planet Hulk? World War Hulk???)
I think hyper sexualization of any gender is stupid and serves more as softcore porn than anything.
It is just slightly more offensive to women who spent a long time in our history being told "Well maybe you shouldn't have worn that dress and he wouldn't have hit on you the way he did."
BUT HEY before this gets out of hand, it is equally as degrading as putting down a man for "Well if your wife hits you and you just take it, your a little b()."
There has to be some give and take on this issue, it is not so clearly black and white.
I'm a big enough adult to recognize it's just stupid to think I can change comics and how they are drawn. Maybe if there were a bit more selection for my daughter so she could ease her way into it though? That would be pretty cool.
We're talking about creating a business out of an existing business.
Not getting rid of what we have, at some point you have to accept the reality of the world we live in. I don't want to strike down comic books, but it would be cool if they had a bigger selection for my kids (who would love to enjoy what daddy is reading, but they can wait until they're more mentally/emotionally/physically developed before being exposed).
As the father of a daughter, and someone who normally gets worked up about this sort of thing, I don't see the big deal. I've always viewed comics as equivalent to daytime soap operas made more pornographic to suit teenage male tastes. What value is there in trying to capture this bit of culture for girls? Is it going to lead to higher paying jobs or more equal gender roles in the home? Is it going to lead to greater fulfillment in their personal lives?
To me, asking how we can get girls more interested in comics or sci-fi is like asking how we can address the gender imbalance in ditch digging jobs.
These are not hypothetical comics. If the characters are primarly tools to entice male audiences, then they are unlikely to also serve as good role models.
I believe that given a pie of content from comic book targeted at young male adult the pie dedicated to action is way larger than the pie dedicated to romance - and the flatness of woman carachter has more to do with audience interests / space dedicated to romance than writers' skills.
that said I too hate that non protagonist women are mostly treated as props to a story and protagonist women mostly embody male tropes in a woman body - I think there can be much more than that.
Race and gender swapping every established popular character? Checklist casting? Butchering She-Hulk and The Wasp with this insane "girl boss" fetish (Let's not forget the cringe girlboss moment from Endgame)? Making shows like "Echo" and "Agatha Harkness" that appeal to almost no one for the sake of having female leads?
This isn't even considering the comics, which as an industry, has been dying because of all the same behaviors. Last I heard The Punisher's wife came back from the dead to berate him for killing people and to divorce him.
Who wants to read that tripe? Who wants to listen to Ant-man's annoying daughter lecture people? No one.
Your initial argument was essentially "but men are sexualized too!" And that was irrelevant, because we're talking about ladies.
That comic you posted actually sums it up pretty well, super heroes are drawn as male power fantasies. Also notice I never said anything about women finding Batman unattractive, the problem is that women are drawn almost exclusively to please just men. (Look up male gaze)
If I started reading romance novels, then I too might give a damn if my gender is normally portrayed in certain ways. But I read comic books and found myself enjoying the ones where women get to be people to.
Breaking news! Father takes 7-year old daughter to a comic shop for older, male audiences. Daughter is offended! Misogyny, etc! Males are creeps! Sexualizing women in comics is offensive to women and therefore immoral! It's not like women can choose not to read such comics. It is a sign that you live a life of highest quality if you can worry about sexualization in fictional comics.
This article is built on a bunch of assumptions and stereotypes which is terribly ironic given the subject matter. Some of it may be true but some of it just very wrong.
Men can expect that their presence at an event won't automatically be assumed to be decorative or secondary to another man.
Not really. Ask the benchwarmers for a high school sports team.
Despite the growing presence of women in comics, as publishers, editors and creators as well as consumers, a preponderance of men will either treat women at conventions as inconveniences, booth bunnies or even potential dates.
I can't comment on comic books but in the books, movies and TV shows I want I've actually found the exact opposite is increasingly true. There's a strong temptation to make the female characters super-human creatures with a PHD and a shotgun. Always a witty comeback. Always the most moral and ethical characters.
Men are also not going to be automatically assigned into a particular niche just based on their gender.
Tell that to some straight guy who happens to like female-centric things. They're going to be assumed to be homosexuals most of the time.
And when they are seen as customers, they're often automatically assumed to be buying one of the designated "girl" properties
Perhaps in the same way a man strolling around certain types of stores popular with females would be seen?
One of these is welcomed into geek culture with open arms, the other has to justify their existence in the first place.
There are also many apprenticeships for women in construction/plumbing, because they are 1) good-paying jobs (at least in housing booms) and 2) ones where historically women have been denied apprenticeships/union membership.
Oddly enough, there is also gender imbalance in the fashion industry, but not the way you're thinking of it. Sure, women models make WAY more money than male models, but more top designers are men: (http://www.universityobserver.ie/2012/02/06/gender-imbalance...)
Maybe you should do a little googling before you sound off about the lack of hand-wringing? Maybe it's just you who don't care.
I can see how women might consume more romantic fiction as comics/stories than men, though if there's nothing in your app that's only relevant for women, I'd recommend dropping that as part of your pitch
As a father of daughters, I'm waiting for the series of articles that will help me understand the proper way to have a conversation with them about the fact that their boyfriends, when they are old enough to have them, do not have the muscular build nor the attractive looks of common comic book characters such as Batman, Superman, and so on that they constantly see. Never mind when they see movies with all those overly attractive male stars.
But all I get are articles about how certain comic books, that they probably shouldn't be reading anyway, gives them unrealistic expectations of what their bodies should look like. Plus the fact that will somehow prevent them from getting a career they want to have.
Anyway, I often take my daughters to the local comic book store that I feel has an adequate range of comics for all ages and gender. I let them loose to get what they want. The older one goes for things like Monster High and My Little Pony. The younger goes for those as well as TMNT and Transformers. I just let them decide for themselves what kind of comic book reader they want to be. I feel they'll mostly work it out for themselves. Some people shouldn't worry so much over such details because in the end it only stifles your kid's growth as a person. Trying to shield them from the world they live in doesn't help them in the long run.
I think you're missing the point: his daughter knows those characters through pop culture. She wants to read those comics. But the art for those comics is clearly telling her: you are not our audience. And this is most of the store.
The male characters are male power fantasies, and appeal to his son. But the female characters are not female power fantasies, meant to appeal to women. They are male idealized-woman fantasies, and do not appeal to his daughter. That is what he realized.
If they want more female readership, here's all they need to do: Make the same comics you've been making, just without the giganto tits and sexy poses. Women enjoy comics for the same reason as men: great art, great story lines, and lots of action. It's the sexualization of female characters that excludes them.
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