Again, I think you're missing it. He's not uncomfortable with his child watching him play such games. (Well, maybe he is, but that's not his point.) It was knowing that his child was watching him play such games that gave him the perspective for himself to see playing those games differently. He gained new perspective.
It really depends on the situation. If you watch a game to see how it's played that's one thing. But if you just watch someone else play a game you already know and aren't looking for anything specific and it becomes the thing you do (instead of playing the game yourself) that's where I put in the limit.
I don't mind my kids watching people create something (like how to do a trap in minecraft) what I am particularlly after is when it becomes entertainment.
The balance is always fuzzy. In theory I have priniples in reality I always judge it based on context.
But I have had to tell him to watch something else when I can see he is just watching it because he is lazy.
As I was reading the article I thought about how cool it would have been to play with dad, but I’d be cautious not be pushy towards playing with my (future) children. Sons specially are thrilled to share activities with dad and will surely entertain him until they lose interest.
But kids come with their own personalities and skills, should I have a child who is into sports, I would rather enjoy that with him or her instead of passing my old hobbies. I’d be hesitant to share time in front of a screen though, video games don’t seem to be real interaction.
Similar to just about anything I read these days about parenting, I found some things I agreed with and a few that I don't. What has always been troubling to me however, is "our" (society, media, whomever) propensity to blame our children's activities for the disconnect between what they enjoy doing and what we, as parents, think they should be doing.
There are benefits that can be obtained from playing games, video or otherwise. I, personally, have used pokemon to teach reading, story-telling, math, strategy, problem solving, and a myriad of other things to my oldest son. His brother isn't far behind him. We play minecraft, smash bros, mario kart; I even recently introduced him to portal 2. Some of what I let him do is for fun. Some is to gauge his interest in things. Other times I use the time to teach him something new. But the biggest factor of this strategy working is and will almost always be parental involvement.
Most of the backlash I see/hear/read about from other parents is due primarily to an unwillingness to get interested in what their children are interested in. They'll buy them the game and go enjoy some "peace and quiet" and never think twice about it. There's something to be said of a parent really taking an interest and learning about a new universe with their children. I'm far from perfect, but that's what I've been attempting, and it's working out pretty well so far.
There was a quote in an Orson Scott Card book, "The Lost Gate" where the main character speaks of his sort-of adopted mother/trainer/mentor where he mentions that "Love ... it's a term for the woman in my life who loves me enough to read the novels I'm reading just so she can try to figure out what they're teaching me."
TL;DR - Games aren't inherently good or bad. But it's up to the parent to actually do the parenting. They can't just throw a "good video game" in front of their children and expect them to magically grow into engineers or doctors.
I'm half agreeing with you. Clearly, he wants to spend some time with me, that's for sure, but he's also passionate about video games (who isn't?) and he truly want to learn.
On my end, I see this as a win-win; I get time to spend with my kids, share my passion and allow him to learn things he likes. If it leads to him not wanting to do this, we can find something else to share.
> He gets excited about something he sees in a game on youtube — Minecraft, Scrap Mechanic, Cities Skylines, Garry's Mod — then starts working on something similar himself
See, that seems good. My oldest is still a bit young for that, and usually ends up on the "people playing with toys" subset of YouTube, which is... a lot less stimulating.
Since I see we're using this as an excuse for general video-gaming-and-parenting discussion... I'm currently very conflicted about video games for my son (7). He loves them but mom hates them and insists on a limit of 10 minutes per day.
I am not sure she is wrong. I played a lot of games as a kid and I probably could have done better things with my time. Not that I got any guidance as to what those better things would have been, but still.
At the same time, it seems like a lot of dads are bonding with their boys by playing games, and I wonder if I am missing out.
I'm in my 20s and actually I do the same thing your son does pretty regularly. If it's a game I need to pay attention to then I wouldn't be watching a video though.
It's not just games. My 5yr old is perfectly happy to watch videos of other kids opening and playing with toys.
Thinking back on my other kids at that age, I'm not sure if the 5yr old understands that the play is happening someplace else. It's as if they are right there, playing and having fun with the kids in the video.
South park... I fondly remember having time in my life to watch television :/
You make a good point-- it does still feel like you want your kids to be bored though. :-P
I think that if the games are structured correctly they can be pro-social. I've been playing PUBG and I've made a handful of friends by joining a squad where I only know one person, and meeting the other people, and then next time I see them on Discord saying hello.
I suppose the other parenting fear is that kids who are addicted to amazing games/VR/youtube won't have the drive to accomplish things in life? I think that games can, to some extent, teach and reward goal-setting. I bait-and-switched Youtube for Games in my previous comment, and I am concerned with kids who watch TV for multiple hours a day, so... the youtube/toddler criticism from kodt may be pretty on-point.
Hi, I wrote the article! Thanks for your commentary, snidely passing judgement on me and my family. Much appreciated.
The article was intended to be a little provocative, more than a little tongue-in-cheek, but suffice it to say, I never would've continued playing videogames with him if he didn't show interest.
He was nothing less than absurdly enthusiastic about it, and it was a way for us to kill time together, but I never pushed games on him for a moment. Eliot, like many of his friends, loves the creativity and collaboration that comes with the medium of games, and the social aspects of playing them with his friends and family.
He's turning 13 this week, and has taken classes on making games himself in GameMaker, and is now modding the games that he loves. I'm happy he's found a hobby he loves, and I'm proud of him.
Just a remark that playing a computer game with a kid is not spending time with him/her. Its a competely different type of attention which works short term but doesnt create/expand a bond between kid and a parent.
People might not agree but studies state otherwise.
I've been trying to engage with my kid, and it's hard because we don't have a lot of common interests. But it's not about me. I hate youtube. But he wants to record videos tearing around the neighborhood looking for "ghosts?" Fine, y'know, that's a great way to get out of the house and run around a bit. Don't like minecraft, but he does. Fine, whatever, I'm gonna play it and learn some cool redstone hacks or whatever.
Maybe he'll get into modding when he gets older, and I can lure him deeper into programming. Maybe he'll want to ramp up the production value on these awful videos I record. I'm there for that.
The point isn't to make your kid do something big that you want, the point is to make room to do big projects that your kid wants.
Yes, I also focused on single games at times, but like you it was for a month or two. He's played almost nothing but Fortnite for two years. He only plays Minecraft or Goat Simulator because I don't let his younger siblings play/watch Fortnite, and he only played a Star Wars flightsim game because I occasionally say he's allowed to play games but only if it's not Fortnite.
Meanwhile, I can recall dozens of really memorable games I played while growing up. And into adulthood, there have been fantastic games with storylines comparable to all-time classic movies. Imagine missing GTA V, Last of Us, Red Dead, HZD and so on because you only ever played multiplayer CoD for years on end; huge shame, IMO.
And yes, I know that video - we tried to use that thinking with a game we developed. I was thinking of juicing beyond visual gameplay. Chests that act like gambling scratchies, etc.
And it's not possible for everyone. When I had young kids, I could never put my mind back in that "I'm a kid again" mode and play their games. I tried, but it just was not there anymore. My wife could do it. My parents thought she was slightly silly, so maybe it's something I learned from them.
My son, and the daughters of a friend of mine, have always preferred to watch me play games that they could play themselves: I'd happily hand them the controller. In this case, their excuse is that I am better at the games than they are, so instead of being frustrated by, say, a Zelda puzzle, or some of the harder sections of a Mario game, they get to see someone that has been playing these games for over 20 years. When they see how much worse they are, they are just not mentally ready for doing so much worse. I get better results getting them to play simpler games: Less Mario, more Kirby.
Now that they are old enough to be trusted with youtube, they watch people play in youtube, when they have the exact same game! Often the excuse is that if a part is boring, they can just skip to the next video, but when a game feels padded, they can't.
If I was designing games today, I'd pay a lot of attention to this phenomenon: Before we had complaints of piracy, used games, rentals and such. Now, if your game is not any more fun to play than it is to watch, people WILL WATCH!
It's very hard for That Dragon, Cancer, because it's more of a linear experience with limited gameplay than a traditional game: Watching and playing isn't very different. But going after the ads of channels that play your game is not impossible, and is probably their only choice, other than just being OK with people watching without paying.
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