Since neither of us actually have any data to show, it's more reasonable to assume that the anti- and pro-Apple behavior is equal than that one is more common. To proclaim, lacking any actual data, that one is more common and that it just happens to be the one that matches up with your preconception, suggests confirmation bias.
> And what was "unreasonably anti-Apple" in that comment that it needed be flagged?
Please show me where I said that comment was unreasonably anti-Apple, or that it deserved to be flagged.
Most of those are people giving fairly reasonable benefit of the doubt, no apologism. But I suspect you're probably about as biased against Apple as the people you're assuming are biased towards Apple.
>I think there's just as much unreasonably anti-Apple activity on HN as there is pro-Appl
No there isn't. Pro-Apple comments don't get downvote bombed and flagged for no reason as much as those anti-Apple. If you don't see this it's your bias showing.
And what was "unreasonably anti-Apple" in that comment that it needed be flagged? By market share it's true, for most people saying "a computer" is gonna mean a PC, not just a Mac only.
I think it's apparent that discussions about Apple tend to be noticeably more polarising than similar posts about other Big Tech. I have got myself into some heated exchanges in the last couple of days. I was presented with the following claims (paraphrased):
HN commentary and commenters are biased in favour of Apple.
Only Apple has defenders in the community who counterclaim against negative assertions.
While I argue that this isn’t true, based on my (biased) opinion and minimal experience, I would like to know if others have experienced the same claim, wish to present evidence to back that claim, or could present a different take on the situation.
In responding to the original claim, I went rooting through posts on major tech companies looking for those favouring other giants, and I found some. Then I was reminded that I was looking for people speaking up in favour, to oppose detractors, and again I found evidence.
The search caused me to ask: can we prove, or disprove, that HN has a specific Apple bias? Whether it's positive or negative, whether it's stronger than bias around other tech companies?
It’s worth pointing out that ‘bias’ is a fairly meaningless word to be using here.
It’s pretty obvious that ‘Jedimind’ is biased, isn’t it?
As to my comment about ‘bugs’ etc. I don’t think it takes much to confirm that statement. Just look around online and in the press and then investigate in detail.
What you will find is some kernels of truth, plus a vast amount of telephone-game like inaccuracy.
This isn’t unique to Apple - it’s simply a feature of our current public discourse.
By raising this, I’m just pointing out that Apple is operating in that real world, so to expect them to operate idealistically is unrealistic.
As to me defending Apple - is it possible it only seems like this because my tone is less angry than some other people here?
Take another look at what I’ve said.
I don’t think you’ll find me anywhere saying their behavior is justified and you will find several places where I unequivocally say it’s wrong.
I don’t think this is any different to your final paragraph.
We can simultaneously think they are wrong, and try to understand what they are dealing with when they make their decisions. These two things don’t have to be in conflict.
What I often see is the desire to make simplistic declarations that reduce Apple to some kind of demon where the wrong decisions or compromises they make are evidence that this is something fundamental about them to just rage about, rather than a problem to be understood.
I see this as a kind of self-deception, which I would prefer not to fall into.
When you look around the thread, where people are comparing Apple to the Gestapo and shrilly calling for them to be “smashed”, and their money confiscated and redistributed, do you really think that my ‘bias’ is the issue here?
Your comment is hilarious, so please don't take this personally. It is hilarious that you would say his comment has "too much bias in favor of Apple" and then follow it with a claim of an ideological position as fact.
Your actual statement -- that you "suspect it is because of.." is probably completely correct.
The very idea that you should downvote someone because of "bias" is such a Generation-Y concept. Obviously everyone's biased. I've yet to see an anti-Apple post from anyone (including this EFF post, or any comments anywhere on HN) that wasn't full of bias.
In fact the bias is so blatent it is to the point of simply lying to try and rationalized it-- for example, claiming that Apple did nothing new, or innovative in the iPhone is absurd, since no phone worked like the iPhone at the time it was announced and the iPhone clearly had a massive impact because it was so innovative. Or another example- claiming that the Mac was a ripoff of Xerox.
So, when someone says "you're biased" it simply means "you don't agree with me, and I can't argue against your points, so I'll engage in ad hominem and call you a name"....
But the profoundly sad thing about it is that I really think they think that they are being "objective" when they believe this anti-Apple ideology.
I haven't seen any evidence of actual damage from the "patent wars", and if Apple is triumphant here, it will be good for the industry and good for consumers.
Innovation is Good.
The idea that it "has to stop" or that it is "bad" has only come up at the same time that android has come into existence, and so the motivation for claiming that patents are somehow problematic seems... excuse the use of the word-- biased!
I guess this is where the confirmation bias comes in.
As someone who would consider themselves to be a realistic 'Apple apologist' (I like Apple, as a company and their products, and tend to assume the positive for everything they do), I see a large negative bias against Apple on HN.
I think there's just as much unreasonably anti-Apple activity on HN as there is pro-Apple -- if you think otherwise (in either direction), it's probably your bias showing.
Of course not. You're admitting and prideful that you aren't going to look at things fairly, and your complaints are therefore unhelpful, naive and very likely wrong to boot. People who simply like Apple are not uncredible, though a fanboy would be, for similar but opposite reasons. Credible people are aware of their biases and strive to overcome them. When you embrace your biases like you have, you're just offering some bullshit with a disclaimer that it's bullshit. At least you have honesty going for you.
The comments in this thread come from a very privileged subset of highly tech savvy users, who incidentally believe their higher opinions are somewhat objective when applied to hundreds of millions of Apple users. I think what you say about the comments here “disproving” my arguments is actually proving how skewed the perspective is in here.
This website is full of people openly stating that they'll never switch away from their beloved Apple devices until competitors catch up with privacy protection, OS updates or what else. Somehow, one opinion going the opposite direction (for instance, Leader2light's) appears once in a while and quickly gets greyed to death. This bias is plainly disgusting to me.
I think you should read his comment history and then consider apologizing.
Obviously I am well aware of his comment history, hence why I made the original point. While I don't argue with the premise that, yes, there may have been occasions where he was less than severe on non-Apple, as a whole, he has a profound, unavoidable pro-Apple bias that is impossible to ignore.
I honestly feel that there is very little bias in here. I downvoted the comment just like I would have if he had replaced Apple with Google or any other name.
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