I hope they dont end up having to do this. Why should users subsidize driver's wages if Uber isn't paying them enough? Uber should instead give the drivers a bigger cut, and if needed up their rates to make up for it.
I agree. I understand the reason why tipping exists in the restaurant industry and that there are special laws surrounding tipping and minimum wage there, but in my opinion the future should be moving towards eliminating the need for tipping. Businesses adding tipping to their existing business model is, in my opinion, moving in the wrong direction. It's hard for tip-based businesses to move in a tipless direction, but the best way to begin phasing that out is to not start requiring tips in the first place. Once they start allowing tips, they're really never going to get away from employees demanding tips and customers seeking lower prices even if adding in a tip makes the prices the same.
If you need to pay your employees more, they should get paid more. Tips is a bad way of handling employee compensation. Tips should be reserved for extraordinary service rendered, not the main way of paying your employees.
Because wait staff makes less than minimum wage with the expectation that they will make up for it with tips. It's not a good excuse, it's just what happens to be enshrined in the law. It's really just a way for restaurants to cheap out and not pay their employees a proper wage.
To users, one of the great appeals of Uber (and other similar services) is its simplicity. Tips are ridiculous and arbitrary, and getting out of a car without having to think about that is a huge win for users.
Ratings already replace tips as an incentive for good service, in a far more transparent and actionable way.
And if drivers start getting tips regularly, you can guarantee their overall earnings won't go up -- Uber will simply pay them even less, because they can. Whether payment is technically part of a base fare or tip doesn't do a thing to change the law of supply and demand.
(Example -- how restaurants pay waiters far less than minimum wage, and are legally allowed to, because the tips make up for it.)
Moving back to tips is a huge step backwards -- especially when forward-thinking restaurants in NYC are moving away from them as well.
I use Lyft these days primarily _because_ I have the opportunity to tip the driver for great service without using cash. I don't believe ratings (especially Uber ratings) are meaningful at all because it's either five star or you're fired, and as a customer you pay the same rate for terrible service as you do for excellent service. I don't believe tips are an excuse for getting around the base fare in this case or for avoiding min wage laws.
Being able to easily tip a driver for exceptional service is great, makes me feel better as a customer, and provides an incentive for drivers beyond stars. What's the harm in making it easy if your base rate is the same? As long as it's not an expectation I think it works quite well.
> As long as it's not an expectation I think it works quite well.
Other people have pointed out potential and real problems with tipping, but I think that a direct counter argument against what you said is that it will become an expectation.
I think the issue is the opposite outcome of your scenario:
"As long as it's not an expectation"
It will become an expectation. Many people find tipping a hassle and they don't want drivers using a new social standard to guilt them into it.
Also, any discretionary tip amounts become another datapoint for drivers to give bad ratings to riders. ("Oh she only gave me a 15% tip instead of a 30% tip so I rate her 1 star!")
So now the "passenger ratings" become worthless because the Uber drivers won't rate less than 5 stars for fear of retaliation by a customer giving a low tip amount. Also, instead of the rider immediately exiting the car and be on her way, she has to sit and wait for the driver to rate, and then she has to submit a tip.
The combination of driver/rider ratings _and_ tipping leads to little social games of petty blackmail.
So now the rider can give $0 as a tip (if the Uber allows that option) and the rider doesn't have to worry about retaliation of a bad rating from the driver. Game theory is fun.
To generalize, if people disagree with an app's user interface (e.g. tips), both sides perform little acts of rebellion against it.
If Uber app does not have tips, some Uber drivers rebel by hassling riders for not using Lyft which has a tipping option or asking for cash tips on the side. This annoys the passengers.
If the apps does have tips, some riders rebel by paying $0 because they think the whole idea is stupid. This annoys the drivers.
If it's not an expectation now, it will be soon. Tipping became a thing partly because managers started telling their employees to start asking for tips, and soon enough it became effectively mandatory. It's better to just not have things set up to create the problem in the first place. I don't really want waiting staff or taxi drivers forced to coerce tips out of me.
As others have said, it'll become an expectation, however, I'll add:
- I expect that I should never get bad enough service that a driver deserves to be paid less. If something really bad happens, I expect Lyft to refund me entirely. As such, I want Lyft to be factoring a reasonable wage into the fare price.
- A car ride isn't really a service, it's a commodity. I'm paying for someone to pick me up, drive along a predetermined route (whatever Google Maps/Apple Maps/Waze says) and drop me off. This isn't like a restaurant where the server can get your order wrong, ignore you the whole night or forget to top up your drinks, this is more like a supermarket where you're going through a checkout. Items go in, items go out. Passengers go in, passengers go out. A better comparison actually is a flight or bus. You don't tip your flight attendants or bus drivers.
- I don't want to think about how to compensate my driver. I'm not an employer, I have no idea how much this person's time is worth, I don't know how much of a tip is "good" and how much is an insult. I want Lyft to factor all that into my fare price so I don't have to think about it.
That's a good point. I would also add that reliance on tips rewards drivers for targeting affluent neighborhoods in hopes of high tips. Not to mention relying on tipping stereotypes to discriminate against passengers
Last week I caught an Uber to the airport and the driver asked me why I didn't use Lyft, then proceeded to somewhat guilt me for not using their app, because it allowed tipping. Really shitty and awkward ride.
I live in NYC, and at this point I rarely use Uber. This is one more reason not to.
When I call an Uber, I have to wait N minutes for the car to come. If I want a cab, I step outside my apartment and flag one down. Granted, I live in downtown, so that wouldn't work as well in the other boroughs.
Uber also surges. Yellow cabs are always the same price. It's usually cheaper than Uber.
Also, the Curb app works really well. I haven't yet used to request a cab, but when you get in one you just enter the a six digit code from the screen into the app and it automatically takes care of the fare and adds a default tip (which you can adjust).
I honestly wish there was a separate app to tell me when (and how much) to tip and when not to tip when in the US. As a European, I'm always baffled by folks expecting tips in weirdest (at least by my standards) of circumstances.
As an American I'm often confused about it, too. Luckily in day-to-day life I pretty much only tip waiters/waitresses but it gets confusing when I'm travelling.
Do you get your hair cut or order pizza? Take a taxi or visit a bar?
Service or entertainment type jobs where you interact with the person for most, if not all, of the time usually get tipped and you're tipping for good service/entertainment. Although some restaurants have this nasty practice of including the tip in the bill...
In the US, most pizza drivers pay for their own gas and the tip covers the gas. Tipping them is a courtesy for delivering your food to you out of their own pocket. They choose to deliver because more often than not the tips pay more than enough to cover gas expenses.
The "interaction" is why you might not tip your plumber but you will tip your hairdresser. You probably aren't making small talk with your plumber the entire time they are working even though they are providing you a service.
Never in my life have I done that. Not once. I tip because otherwise I'm an awful person who took money away the poor hardworking waiter.
It's amazing that the US has managed to become so brainwashed that the idea of mandatory tipping is completely ingrained meanwhile having people in a union (so they can fight to just actually get paid a decent wage) is abhorrent.
I don't actually do most of those things. My girlfriend cuts my hair, I make my own pizza, I don't generally go to bars, and I bike most places. I've never thought about it before but I guess I'm just frugal and prefer to do things myself
The best rule of thumb is if someone has transported something you own. You tip a waiter at a restaurant because they brought you your food, but you don't tip at McDonalds because you go up to the counter to get your own food, it's not brought to you. You tip a pizza delivery guy because he brought it to you, but you don't tip if you went and picked it up yourself. You tip a bellhop (or porter) at a hotel if they bring your luggage to your room, but you don't usually tip the doorman. You would tip a valet who parks your car for you. A restaurant is 10%-20% of the bill, a porter is $1-$2 per bag they have to carry. $2 is fine for a valet, $2 every time they bring your car to you. You don't have to tip when they take your car.
There are some places where people tip merely because there is a tip jar available... usually you just dump small change into there (the coins you get back or maybe a dollar). Starbucks comes to mind: there's no reason to tip at Starbucks other than the fact that there is a tip jar sitting out. If you're not used to tipping culture, ignore it. Same thing with ice cream shops or take-out windows. Absolutely no reason for there to be a tip jar there other than they're trying to guilt you into paying more than the advertised price.
There are certain situations where you might tip for extraordinary service rendered. You don't tip a doorman for opening a door, but you can tip if he calls a taxi for you. You don't have to tip at Starbucks, but if you ordered an extraordinarily complicated drink and they got the order right, a tip is called for. I usually tip even at take-out restaurants if I'm picking up an order late at night while they're getting ready to close the restaurant, or if it's a holiday and I feel bad that they're stuck working.
Some people get really mad if you don't tip a waiter. People rarely get mad if you forget to tip anyone else. So if you're confused, just tip your waiter 10% or 20% of the bill if they brought the food to you and forget any other tipping. If someone complains, just say you're European and aren't clear on the rules.
My interpretation, perhaps widespread in the US, is that giving anything under 15% is specifically done to ensure that the waiter understands that the service was sub-par, so the bitter feelings are ideally balanced out. Getting "really mad" or instead realizing "ah, this is because I didn't check back after bringing their food for a good 20 minutes, so that request for ketchup only came after their fries were almost gone" is their own prerogative.
If in fact they did everything by the book, especially that crucial "check in after 3 minutes / 3 bites following food delivery," and still got less than 15%, then "really mad" is probably warranted given the current situation of a sub-minimum-wage base.
I typically map it out as follows:
Less than 15% = You were nowhere to be found while my food was getting cold and I needed something for the food.
15% = Nothing terrible happened, but maybe we sat there for a loooooong time with menus closed or empty plates.
18% = Normal / everything as expected.
Greater than 18% = You rock. I asked for suggestions and you had great ones, you comped something not related to a bad screwup, etc.
Notice that all of the variation is in a pretty tight range. We could easily normalize it down about 10 points (and reinstate minimum wage) and remap the 4 levels above to <5%, 5%, 8%, >8%.
Wow that's intense. I've never worked in food service, but if I want to leave a message saying "I want to let you know that I didn't forget to tip you, you just gave bad service" I usually leave like a dollar or something, not 10%. But really if I had bad enough service to warrant sending a message, I wouldn't give them 10% on top of the price of the food. They would just get zero (or damn close to zero) tip.
Do people really say "you suck so I'm going to give you 15% more than the list price"?
I guess it all boils down to just how bad it was. Although I concluded above with a proposal to significantly reduce the range of the "bad" category, in today's reality the wide 15% range allows you to dial it in granularly. Once in a blue moon that is damn close to zero, sure.
That explains it for food -- but you also always tip bartenders (just like waiters, essentially their entire income is tips, so stiffing them is just as bad), taxis, barbers/hairdressers and massage therapists.
So not bad at all. It's in no way my responsibility to cover their wages. If the bar wants to raise prices a bit compensate then fine, but tipping is a ridiculous practice.
Bartenders yeah, I treat them like waiters. You're right on that one. The others I usually lump into "tip with extradordinary service" and so do most people I know, so maybe it's regional. I've never tipped for a cab but I don't live in a cab-heavy city like NYC. I always tip my regular barber though, just because my barber is awesome.
That's where it gets super confusing though, so a European can pretty safely ignore those and play ignorant.
If you think Uber "must" do this if required by law, you don't get UX...
They could almost certainly comply with any law like this by adding a tiny little "Tip your driver" link in your receipt, which would be seen and used by .001% of riders...
Disgusting. Not only is this harmful practice often enforced by social pressure, now they want to make it into a law. Makes me glad to live in a country where tipping is not so widespread.
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