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The interesting aspect is that conservatives think that it is very likely that social media sites censor their views at a rate double that of liberals. Even if the social media companies were strictly neutral in the matter, it's pretty common for conservatives to encounter left-wing hostility and censorship from other users of social media sites.


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> it's pretty common for conservatives to encounter ... censorship from other users of social media sites

How, exactly? Is Facebook doling out admin privileges to random users? Or are we confusing "receive criticism" with "censorship" here?


They are confusing the two yes

Post an article in r/politics about anything positive Trump has done and you'll get a ban. On Facebook, a similar phenomenon might occur due to liberal users reporting conservative ideas they don't agree with as hate speech. Disclaimer: I'm not very familiar with how Facebook works so I could be way off

Being banned by a user-moderated forum is not equivalent to being censored by a social media platform.

> Post an article in r/politics about anything positive Trump has done and you'll get a ban.

That's no more "censorship" than me unfriending you on Facebook would be.

> On Facebook, a similar phenomenon might occur due to liberal users reporting conservative ideas they don't agree with as hate speech.

That'll put it in a review queue, upon which Facebook employees make a decision. If it gets deleted, it's because you violated Facebook's rules.


If it is an actual Facebook employee, I can definitely see why conservatives would think that. The active encouragement of civil disobedience by liberal leaders is probably more than enough confirmation to conservatives of this behavior. I;m not saying this behavior is /is notoccurring, just why some people might think that it does

> If it is an actual Facebook employee, I can definitely see why conservatives would think that.

It's more complicated than that, though. It takes more than just a report to get someone's content deleted.

Take a look at the examples from their moderator training:

https://www.propublica.org/article/facebook-hate-speech-cens...

See, for example, the slide about "female drivers", "black children", and "white men" - Facebook's policies (via some pretty odd logic, IMO) protect posts about "white men", but not "black children". A liberal bastion, they're not.

> One document trains content reviewers on how to apply the company’s global hate speech algorithm. The slide identifies three groups: female drivers, black children and white men. It asks: Which group is protected from hate speech? The correct answer: white men.

> The reason is that Facebook deletes curses, slurs, calls for violence and several other types of attacks only when they are directed at “protected categories”—based on race, sex, gender identity, religious affiliation, national origin, ethnicity, sexual orientation and serious disability/disease. It gives users broader latitude when they write about “subsets” of protected categories. White men are considered a group because both traits are protected, while female drivers and black children, like radicalized Muslims, are subsets, because one of their characteristics is not protected. (The exact rules are in the slide show below.)


I don’t like Facebook and I rarely use it anymore but this set of examples seems a bit contrived I think.

Would it not be the same the other way around because of the subset rule? Black women would be protected whereas male drivers and white children would not?


In practice, no.

> Post an article in r/politics about anything positive Trump has done and you'll get a ban.

Do you have any proof of that claim?


It may well be the case that one of the biggest practical problems with US politics is that large numbers of conservatives simply do not understand what censorship and robust debate look like, and think that deep disagreement from other people like themselves means their rights are being violated.

Sometimes there’s a bit more nuance, but it does tend to come down to this. Often flagging mechanics are pointed to as censorship, or anything which falls short of engaging with someone in debate is censorship. In most cases there’s a lack of understanding that just as they have a right to say something, other people have a right to respond with a flag, or not respond at all. Freedom of expression doesn’t imply an obligation to debate everyone on every point. I’m not censoring an anti-vaxxer by flagging and moving on, I don’t owe them a debate. The government isn’t allowed to interfere in the right of anti-vaxxers to spew, and also in my right to call them morons, or a social media site’s right shut the whole conversation down.

Too often “free speech” is a messy and conflated concept used to basically argue against anyone being told to shut up. Various arguments about the size or dominance of a social media platform are often used to try and get them covered like the government under the 1st amendment. Then if all that fails, the argument switches to free speech as a vague principle rather than a legal right.

To be fair, it isn’t just conservatives who seem to feel this way either. Americans in general just seem, on average, not to understand this issue as well as they think they do.


It is a core tenet of Liberalism (in the actual sense of the word) that yes, free speech does mean that you have a right for your ideas to be engaged.

Moreover people like Mill or Popper would argue people have a duty to engage every idea, because that's how the open society works.

The reduction of free speech to the first amendment and to State censorship is a modern american barbarism that is as absurd as it is baseless in either its historical roots or its application by any free judiciary, including the American one.

Telling people to shut up because their ideas are unpopular is and always will be illiberal.


People have a right to be illiberal, liberal, and everything in between. People have a right to hew to the thinking of Mill and Popper, or ignore it. That’s also an aspect of freedom of thought, and consequent expression. You’re also free not to like it, and I’m free not to care.

Certainly. But free speech is an inherently liberal position by definition, construction and history.

You're free to think that it's all bunk and tyranny of the majority is just fine. Many people do.

I'd just like it to be clear to everyone that such an opinion is being against free speech. Because what greatly annoys me is when people try to claim that they advocate a "reasonable" version of free speech when they simply oppose it. Or indeed try to claim that their censorious position is a liberal one.

Which I am not at all accusing you of incidentally.


My perception (and apparently that of those asked in the survey) is that conservative opinion gets a disproportionate amount of "I just flag it and move on" treatment.

I would wager a large sum of money that if left-wing opinion were treated in the same way there would be much whining about minority rights and the importance of an individual's free speech from the left.


Thank you someone for giving me a downvote :)

> "I’m not censoring an anti-vaxxer by flagging and moving on, I don’t owe them a debate"

Maybe not, but on some sites you are abusing your privileges as a moderator by behaving this way.


People feel entitled to be wrong. Like the vaccines thing. Surely you have that one crazy person pm your facebook spouting crap about autism and the MRR and everyone flipping out at them.

That person is feeling 'censored'.

And now every other person is a 'bot' or a Russian troll.


The exact same way it happens on this site: users flag, system automatically responds, moderators might also respond, and if they do, typically it is to confirm censorship that has already begun.

My understanding of Facebook flagging is that repeated flags move it up in the queue, but do not initiate automated removal. So, if 500 people flag your post about fluffy unicorns as a death threat, it'll be checked in a few minutes instead of a week from now, but it'll likely be reviewed as OK and remain up the entire time.

Indeed. I am especially amused by this effect being demonstrated on the grandparent comment.

There's also the self-censorship that develops by encountering moral outrage when one express's one views on a social media site.

That's a point I hadn't thought of before. It may not be the companies themselves, but the user bases that are "censoring" views

But that's just not doable. I can't go on Twitter and censor someone's tweet.

Even if the social media companies were strictly neutral in the matter

That's probably a big contributor to the perception.

The leaders of many of the big tech companies are very public in their support of certain views, and steer their companies to publicly support those views, as well. So it makes sense for people with differing views to believe that that companies which don't share their views would be against them.

If the tech companies were to focus solely on being good technology companies and not trying to re-shape society, the public might have a different perception.


>Statistics have a well-known liberal bias.

Especially FBI crime statistics.


We’re witnessing the rise of fascism in America. There’s a massive disinformation campaign going on meant to erode faith in the rule of law and the democratic institutions that ensure limited government. Of course thinking people are hostile towards it. We should be.

"it's pretty common for conservatives to encounter left-wing hostility and censorship from other users of social media sites."

Other users can't censor. That's not an ability they have.

And really, the only hostility I've seen targeted at conservative views are those viewpoints that decide that certain people shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. And I can very much understand that, if you were told that you couldn't marry the person you loved, or even that you shouldn't be allowed to exist in public, you'd be quite hostile to the people who spout those viewpoints too.


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