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You also have to account the supplements needed for a pure vegan diet. The best option is probably to buy the fish fresh from your local fisherman.


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The only supplement needed on a vegan diet is minimal amounts of b12, and that’s only necessary because sanitation kills the bacteria that produce it.

The environmental footprint of a vegan diet is way lower than even that of a pescavore.


No one's disputing the footprint, they're disputing how feasible it is for all or even most people. Vegetarianism requires much more understanding and planning to ensure you ingest sufficient proper macro and micronutrients.

Edit: and you need look no further than Harvard's explanation of how to become a vegetarian and choose your foods to ensure a healthy diet: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/becoming-a-ve...

How many ordinary people do you think have sufficient understanding of these factors to become healthy vegetarians?


Eating a healthy diet takes work no matter what diet plan you follow. You're assuming a meat-based diet is automatically healthy when in fact the typical meat based, western diet is strongly linked to all of our most deadly diseases. You're going to be a lot better off on an even non-ideal plant based diet than you are going to be eating hamburgers and pizza.

I'll admit it's currently not that easy to follow a strictly plant based diet if you mostly eat in restaurants and don't live in a first tier Western city.

If you're willing to do your own shopping and mostly eat at home it's actually not only easy but really enjoyable to take back control of your health and what you eat.


> You're assuming a meat-based diet is automatically healthy

I'm asserting that it's harder to be nutrient deficient given a meat/fish-based diet. The only "work" in this diet is not eating too much.

> western diet is strongly linked to all of our most deadly diseases

Mostly due to overconsumption, not due to the composition of the diet. Controlling for caloric intake eliminates most differences in health outcomes between the various diets, assuming no nutrient deficiencies are present.


> the typical meat based, western diet is strongly linked to all of our most deadly diseases

The standard American diet is composed of 70% plant-based foods, which is the same ratio found in the Mediterranean diet which is lauded as one of the most healthful.

It's not the meat that's causing the issues, it's the processed plant foods and plant-derived oils that destroy one's health on a western diet. Or in other words, the horrible food quality. Any diet that doesn't include processed plant foods and oils will be an improvement from one that does, regardless of whether it includes meat.


I'm guessing you mean "minimal amounts" because B12 doses/levels are measured in micrograms. In fact a vegan diet provides no natural B12 (see note below). This is a serious gap that must be addressed by supplementation/fortification.

Supplements have challenges too (and in fact many studies show supplements to be of little value). In order to attain sufficient B12 via supplements, a person needs to consume many times the RDA value. For example, only 10 mcg of a 500 mcg oral supplement is absorbed by healthy people.

So while technically you may need minimal amounts of B12, it remains an essential vitamin. Getting it in a format which is both absorbable and bioavailable is not trivial and serves as a clue that human physiology evolved in an ecosystem which, to varying degrees, involved eating animals.

Note: For now I'll set aside probable/common deficiencies among vegans/vegetarians in B6, heme iron, the vitamins A, D3, K2, micronutrients and fatty acids DHA, CLA, Carnatine, Carnosine, Taurine, Creatine and others. In fairness, a western/standard american diet can also score poorly in many nutrients.


Fermented foods such as kimchi or sauerkraut can provide B12, but you have to get the old-fashioned variety, not the "pour some vinegar over boiled cabbage" version.

Most store-bought or restaurant kimchi has fish-sauce and/or bits of shrimp.

I can't find much support for B12 in these foods in online databases.

If these must be home-made or of similar quality, supplementation of B12 is still going to be important.


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