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hutzlibu | karma 9787 | avg karma 1.64 · 2020-12-04 16:26:59

Which why they sadly ended up digested by Oracle.

pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 16:47:21+00:00

Only after Google sent a couple of torpedoes and then went as if it wasn't their business.

hutzlibu | karma 9787 | avg karma 1.64 · 2020-12-04 17:25:08+00:00

What torpedoes do you mean?

pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 18:01:51+00:00

Android and ripping Sun off.

Then they were hoping that no one would buy them, not even themselves cared to own Java after their trick.

So now they push Kotlin, while researching Fuchsia, and keep a bunch of lawyers quite happy.

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hutzlibu | karma 9787 | avg karma 1.64 · 2020-12-04 18:11:43+00:00

So implementing and pushing Java in Android was a torpedo against Sun?

Interesting logic.

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pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 18:33:48

Android Java is not Java, and yes when I take someone's product and don't pay what the license specifies, while introducing an incomplete implementation, that is 100% ripping off.

Thankfully we are going to have that settled in the near future, and then Android folks can party all night long with their Kotlin implementation and rename ART into KVM.

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hutzlibu | karma 9787 | avg karma 1.64 · 2020-12-04 18:59:55+00:00

Despite dalvic and co. it still pushed the Java ecosystem, right?

Not what I would call a tornado in the meaning pf destruction.

And about the license, well, it is disputed, right? I only read about it tangential, but the case seemed far from crystal clear to me.

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pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 19:07:13+00:00

As much as Microsoft did with J++.

No one needs Android Java slowing down the Java ecosystem by imposing additional burdens on Java library authors that also want to target Android.

Besides Google that is.

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UncleEntity | karma 2069 | avg karma 0.83 · 2020-12-04 19:58:03

> Sun Microsystems, Inc. (SUN) hereby grants to you a fully-paid, nonexclusive, nontransferable, perpetual, worldwide limited license (without the right to sublicense) under SUN's intellectual property rights that are essential to practice this specification. This license allows and is limited to the creation and distribution of clean room implementations of this specification that...[list of requirements]

AFAICT the whole fight is over API's and not "don't pay what the license specifies" as they give you the ability to do a clean-room implementation without paying royalties.

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WorldMaker | karma 12216 | avg karma 1.52 · 2020-12-04 18:57:42+00:00

Implementing it from scratch as a skunkworks reverse engineering project designed to never need to pay license fees upstream.

colejohnson66 | karma 9319 | avg karma 1.93 · 2020-12-04 20:59:15+00:00

Despite the license allowing clean room reverse engineering? Sun kindof shot themselves in the foot with those words.

pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 21:16:42+00:00

Where on the license? Please.

It explicitly only allowed the use of JavaSE on desktop deployments, OpenJDK was yet to be made available.

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ezekiel68 | karma 740 | avg karma 2.63 · 2020-12-04 19:23:08

I mean... if we took this version of the narrative at face value, I guess we'd all have been better off with no Compaq and hence no commodity PC clones.

pjmlp | karma 109153 | avg karma 1.76 · 2020-12-04 21:15:21

Definitely, I miss Amiga, Atari, Acorn and friends, which Apple is the only surviving one.

I was the only PC guy on my gang, and that was just due to other factors not commodity.

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keypusher | karma 2250 | avg karma 3.42 · 2020-12-05 00:56:24+00:00

So if Google had chosen to use a different language for Android then Sun would still be around? I don't think so.