Some countries have temporary suspended using it well they investigate a very small number of people who got blood clots, which very well might be random chance. Nobody has permenently banned and in all probability the clots are a coincidence (healthy people get blood clots sometimes) and the suspension will likely be reversed once it is fully investigated.
On the other, even Sweden suspended it (Astra-Zeneca is a British-Swedish company). I wish HN would stop pretending everything is fine with this vaccine - it might really be problematic.
I don't see why sweden suspending it makes any more difference than any other county. They're a non-corrupt first world country. I doubt they play favourites because its a domestic company.
Anyways, im not saying don't investigate, we should investigate all possible side effects. However so far it sounds more like a coincidence so im not worried. Healthy people get sick randomly sometimes when you're looking at groups of millions of people. Sometimes by chance it will happen near when they got the vaccine. Its important to keep perspective.
There's been plenty of suggestion that other EU countries' decision to suspend AZ is somehow a political decision, and not primarily motivated by health concerns.
> Its important to keep perspective.
Yes, it is - on both sides. Just because, as someone here said, "I'm a lever puller" doesn't automatically mean that your opinion is better and more informed than that of health authorities across EU. (note that I'm not accusing you personally of being a "lever puller", I'm just venting about what I perceive to be HN propensity to take risks on other people and dismiss concerns).
> doesn't automatically mean that your opinion is better and more informed than that of health authorities across EU
I agree that health authorities know better than I do, but i don't think i'm disagreeing with any health authorities. There are some health authorities saying its safe to keep on using it and there are some temporarily suspending while the situation is being investigated out of an abundance of caution. Unless i missed something, not a single one is saying that the vaccine is unsafe or confirmed to cause blood clots.
> I'm just venting about what I perceive to be HN propensity to take risks on other people and dismiss concerns
There is no risk free view here. Less vaccinated people means more people with covid, which among other things means more blood clots because covid can sometimes cause that (although obviously that's not the primary concern with covid).
Obviously if we can confirm a link between the blood clots and the vaccine, we should stop the vaccine. But as it stands the evidence is extremely weak bordering on non existent, and stopping using that vaccine will cost lives.
Sorry - trolley problem, pull the lever to kill one person and save 3 others, that kind of metaphor.
> stopping using that vaccine will cost lives
In the EU, there are alternatives (e.g. in my country I could actually register to Moderna and due to the shorter time between shots I'd actually be completely vaccinated faster with Moderna than with AZ).
Look, I'm not saying AZ should be killed either. Just that in my mind, precaution is justified. Symptoms are bizarre, affected people are young with no other obvious reasons to be affected. Also read what this guy says: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26473368
Again, I'm not saying "AZ=bad". I'm saying precaution is reasonable, and the view that precautions states are "obviously wrong" and should just plough through with vaccination using AZ is a bit simplistic and less informed than people would care to admit.
40-ish cases of blood clots out of 17 million injections is not problematic even if they were indeed caused by the vaccine (which is not proven at the moment, afaik).
People should really keep a sense of perspective and compare that with the risk of blood clots in general, the risk of Covid complications, and even more generally the risk of mundane things like going out or driving. E.g. based on the numbers above someone in my country, the UK, is 10x more likely to die in a car accident in any given year than to develop a blood clot after a jab of that vaccine...
> a very small number of people who got blood clots, which very well might be random chance
To put it in concrete numbers: it's seven people in a sample where it's expected to be one. We're not talking hundreds or thousands of people, but seven.
Yes but still 7-fold increase over normal, therefore it is likely that the vaccine is the issue.
The question to answer is what exactly causes this, so we can learn. It's almost unthinkable that a vaccine which has vastly greater benefits than risks will be banned over this.
I disagree with halting the vaccination, as timing is vital now. It's prime time for mutations with these infection rates since evolutionary pressure is really high right now (mixture of high spread and increasing immunity).
Third waves are rolling over Europe at this moment and we need to stop spread as much as possible to lower the chance of further mutations.
> Yes but still 7-fold increase over normal, therefore it is likely that the vaccine is the issue.
As was my point, it could be just a coincidence. The sample size isn't truly random, it's people who were picked to receive a vaccine. Correlation =/= causation. Investigation needs to be completed for the cases to be attributed to the vaccine.
The blood clots are apparently of a specific type, not a localized big one, but many small clots all over the body. This was on danish news Monday but I can't find an english reference.
This makes it different from the blood clots healthy people sometimes get.
Some countries have temporary suspended using it well they investigate a very small number of people who got blood clots, which very well might be random chance. Nobody has permenently banned and in all probability the clots are a coincidence (healthy people get blood clots sometimes) and the suspension will likely be reversed once it is fully investigated.
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