I definitely think that the research indicates MDMA or even microdosing can be beneficial to some people, but we can't even get marijuana removed as a schedule 1 substance... I doubt they'll allow MDMA therapy anytime soon.
Let’s hope the critics are right and this is a slippery slope. A few more states and a bad economy and pot will be federally legal I think. After that, maybe loosened restrictions on therapy trials?
God, I hope so. Once the US has legalized, Europe can follow. Spoken as someone who maybe vaporizes some once a year and has no trouble sourcing it, but it's such a dumb example of "no, it's been that way and we'll keep it that way" with irrationality turned way up.
Exactly, and it's not even been this way for very long. There's a favourite anecdote where I come from about an old woman tending a rather isolated farm that was quite surprised when the police showed up in force and demanded to know more about her little weed field some time in the 60s or so.
Big pharma cant make money off cannabis so I doubt that will happen. Bug pharma hates what God created and would like to keep people sick so they sell them more pills. Rick Simpson oil is a good example of this.
I was referring to microdosing LSD or psilocybin, but maybe your sarcasm is just what we need cause that is exactly what people are doing is still obtaining the drugs in an unsafe illegal way. It is common sense IMO opinion to make sure people are informed and safe than creating these black markets by making things like this illegal while for years doctors were overprescribing opiods.
I find that I am primarily frustrated by the uncertainty. It is clear that people independently seek out these substances and we have promising evidence that suggests that this class of drugs has a host of potential beneficial effects to many people.
It then becomes infuriating that a an ideology towards drug control that seems to be universally regarded by informed people to be misguided and causing more harm than simply doing nothing, is still interfering with our collective ability to evaluate these substances in an objective way.
I am skeptical about microdosing on MDMA, as the substance itself is pretty taxing on the body and the brain, and I don't think much good would come from completely depleting your serotonin levels.
I think this substance is useful, but its usage is best kept on a (bi-)monthly basis so you have time to recover between sessions.
A better candidate than MDMA for microdosing with similar effect would be 2-CB. It does not deplete any of your serotonin, and you recover from it in a couple of days, even after massive doses.
Couple days is typically worst case scenario. I only experienced that once when I wandered a lot during the experience, so it may not be completely imputable to the drug itself.
Last time I used it I stayed comfortably at home. The day after I could go hiking in the Alps without any problem.
Anyway, the tiredness you feel after using 2-CB is nowhere near as close to that you experience with MDMA, which may last for weeks. Which leads me to think 2-CB would be better for microdosing.
Also this is in no way me advocating 2-CB has being completely safe. Most people who tried it deem it so, but as of yet few researches have been conducted on that substance.
Do you consider it a superior substance? What would be your favorite activities with it? I heard it's the better than m for raves where you can delve into the energetic, empathetic, as well as more psychedelic nature.
There are already Ketamine clinics where I live. I know Ketamine was mot Schedule 1 but I could see it getting approved for therapy within a reasonable timeframe.
Did you know that there is very poor evidence for the benefits of cannabis and creativity? As a self-proclaimed "high-functioning cannabis user" cannabis is an incredibly reliably part of my creative process. It almost always results in some kind of powerful idea or insight.
While I'm fully aware that it is possible that I'm a deluded drug user, I suspect it's the lack of research — and potentially a failure of methods. That is, I'm not sure cannabis would help me think of more uses for a brick (a test of divergent thinking) nor help me gain insight into how to tack a candle to a wall (a classic test of convergent thinking and insight). But there is a definite change in the clarity and volume of my inner voice and mental imagery — and this can be extremely useful for conceiving new product concepts.
Alcohol helps me too if I want to compose music. I tends to experiment more. But I've realized that composing just after getting out of bed is as efficient, as my mind is cloudy. So I'd rather recommend that as relying on alcohol isn't the best idea.
You need to report something a little more interesting than that. I mean people are busy, so if one chimp walks into the lab with a notebook filled with Ramanujam scribbles and another walks in saying their inner voice is louder which chimp do you think gets studied?
I like to view THC as performing a natural transformation to the attention mechanism in the brain so attention per unit time is more distributed among all modules, and thus more combinatorial interesting things can arise. (I’m still in the midst of foramlizing a mathematical model from a PLT perspective.)
But one noticable downside to it is that the more distributed the attentions are, the more likely you are to get stuck in a local maximum as the less cohesive your modules become in terms of utilization (eg for abstracted goals) and the data-granularity gets too fine-grained to be useful from a cybernetic perspective.
The effect differs from person to person. (Eg Short-timespan-wise people lie on the sofa or keep laughing, etc, the stereotypical notion being “stoned”, and long-term-wise if things are repeated in the same settings over, reliance is formed (as a coping mechanism for stress perhaps) and person becomes a typical unproductive “stoner”))
Therefore the most important thing here are 1. the settings 2. Don’t take it lightly. Though thc is not as powerful a disruption to the default mode network as lsd/dmt, one should never take it mindlessly and too regularly. Learn to grow out of it, not in.
Totally agree. I'd add that THC intoxication produces a state-dependent memory that that can be cultivated. I have put an enormous effort into cultivating my average high with positive and creative stimuli— amazing concerts, art museums, art creation, writing, tops of mountains, philosophical discussions, etc. If you mostly smoke cannabis for the purpose of zoning out on the couch, trying to subsequently use cannabis for creative purposes is likely to be less effective.
For people who are interested in creativity/"high-deas" and would prefer to not get the munchies so much, look into finding a high THCV variant such as Durban Poison.
I used to get this feeling while I was drunk (haven't been drunk in a while), I once recorded myself, my insights did not produce the same clarity and euphoria while sober, quite the contrary. Did you really prove that the ideas were a substantial part of some quantifiable success?
Carl Sagan, one of the most famous high-functioning cannabis users, noted the difficulty of remembering the clarity of the idea the next day—and he advocated a practice of consistent writing/recording.
Are you sure it’s not just the habit? When I tried to stop vaping I literally couldn’t bring myself to draw or paint anything. Then once the nicotine started flowing again I had no problems. I assume the act of smoking and drawing has become intertwined in my brain.
That or it just puts me into a deeper state of concentration. Not sure, but it’s interesting how addictions can become ancillary to creativity/productivity.
And interestingly I experienced the opposite as well, working on my car made me crave cigarettes for years after I quit. No other specific act, and generally I was even starting to get turned off by the smell when I passed it on the street. But that specific act was always associated with smoking and working with friends on cars.
Interesting! The guys putting the new road in by my house are just chain smoking WHILE they are pouring the asphalt. Kind of seemed odd, but you helped me understand. Especially when all your co-workers are also smoking. How could they ever quit without quitting their job?
In all seriousness, I've noticed that light THC gummies (specifically sativa dominant) help me visualize hard math problems, like learning linear algebra. Perhaps it's just the enhanced focus...but I definitely notice a difference when studying on THC vs sober.
When you learn something, you tend to recall it better in the same environment as you learnt it. Are you sure you haven't just learnt all your “hard math” on THC, so it's easier to recall when you're on THC?
Do you record the ideas or insights while under substance? I mean do you just feel more creative, or have you analyzed your output while sober and come this conclusion through analysis ? (I'm asking because I felt really creative while drunk, tried to capture my concepts in writing, and found them to be useless drivel when sober).
Not gp, but I concur that I got a lot of interesting ideas that way, some of which are still waiting to be implemented. And I wouldn't compare it to alcohol, at least for me it's not very useful that way.
This is my general opinion of drugs that can be said to heighten certain skills, that you feel like its heightened when in actual fact anything useful that came out of it would have done so whilst sober, but whilst sober it wouldn't feel like the relevation that it did whilst on the drug.
It's not even that unique to drugs. Theres TV shows which I've found make you feel more intelligent for getting the twist or whatever, where in reality it was actually quite simple.
The only time I think it can be helpful (though I can only testify for alcohol here) is that it can help stop analysis paralysis and make you more confident in your decisions. They may be wrong decisions, but thats not the point
I feel this way for the safety of all GRAS[1] foods.
There's never actually been any study on the safety of most of the things that we eat. Particularly, for me, I wonder if sucrose would come up a-ok or end up on the cutting room floor of foods.
There was a thread recently where one of the top comments was about "non-usual" mental states provoking new ideas, even alcohol / sleep deprivation (while not being used to it).
I definitely experienced some breakthroughs after skipping a sleep and suspect the principle is somewhat similar.
> a definite change in the clarity and volume of my inner voice and mental imagery
It's normal that these things varies, depending on the state you're in. Any kind of dopamine rush (thinking positively about future endeavours, thinking about something you would like to have, etc.) will make you're inner voice louder and faster and you'll be imagining things more easily. I guess cannabis is somehow doing this for you, but you can also learn to do this without it (The Molecule of More by Daniel Z. Lieberman is great if you want to understand how one can do this).
Research might be difficult. The issue that makes me cautious is that I don't know any person whose output I admire (scientists, composers, artists) who took these drugs.
The only exception I know is Erdos with amphetamines, which is of course different.
I'm a snob who does not appreciate Kerouac, rock musicians etc. It may be different for others who do.
What percent of public figures that you admire do you think would admit to cannabis use? Even Carl Sagan, a prolific user, advocated for its creative benefits under a pseudonym.
Cannabis use is still very taboo in most professional settings. More taboo than religion, sexuality, mental health, etc. But still we know that composers like Chopin and Berlioz were Opium users.
I think the longer you go you may develop a different perspective, although it seems you might have a glimmer of it already. The endocannabinoid system biologically encodes salience, and so when you take cannabis everything (especially the internal world of thoughts and ideas) seems interesting and important, often moreso than it would be without the substance interfering with your perception.
Even the positive article already says: "may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning." That's a lot more weasel words than the headline. That's without adding "You have to have used MDMA in a therapeutic setting," which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting, only in the experiment. No link to any article, so grains of salt included.
> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting
This says that the drug creates the ability to relearn something, but the learning process itself is of course mediated by the setting provided - learning is always about interaction with the environment. This has nothing to do with weasel words, it simply illustrates the mode of action.
> which is to say it hasn't been found to work in a natural setting
Or rather it can't really be studied in natural (uncontrolled) setting, given that it's a heavily controlled substance. You just can't give it to people and let them run loose. You also can't just collect their opinions on experience with otherwise acquired MDMA, because it's cut, altered, often other substances or a mix of substances.
Also as a scientist you do not want to be seen as supporting self-medication with with illegal and dangerous (MDMA has low therapeutic index) substances.
> may be linked to the psychedelic’s ability to reopen a “critical period” in the brain for social reward learning. That's a lot more weasel words than the headline.
I see it more as a careful scientist wording, given that it's really hard to study psychedelic drugs.
Social reward learning starts very early in life. It's quite a claim that MDMA can overcome patterns ingrained during many years. It would have a major effect. But then why wouldn't it work in another setting? It's not as if time is terribly critical: "the MDMA dose did indeed reopen the critical period for social reward learning in the adult mice, beginning around 6 to 48 hours after the dose. The reopening of the critical period lasted at least two weeks, up to around 4 weeks before returning to baseline." The mechanism proposed in the article, basically serotonin, would also affect more than just social reward learning, so how come there's no sign of that? I don't know the target audience of analyticalcannabis.com, but I would need to see much more evidence before writing such a positively worded article.
> But then why wouldn't it work in another setting?
Is this referring to something explicit? I'd think it's certainly possible it could work in many, but only certain settings have been or can be studied, for specific definitions of "study".
Well MDMA and other psychedelics do have major effects.
I think the ultimate source of the article's claims is this study, but there might be others I am not aware of - the research of psychedelics has exploded lately.
Taking MDMA with my girlfriend was one of the greatest experiences of my life. Brought us much closer together. I can imagine it would be a wonderful addition to couple's therapy because it makes you so comfortable speaking and turns empathy into your instinctive response.
I think there are pros, but I believe with almost any substance it isn't always going to have such a profound positive effect on everyone. I would just like to make sure that people overall have safe and informed access, so if you have a negative experience you won't automatically be stigmatized or arrested and you can have access to a medical professional to help.
I did the same with a girlfriend. It was great and memorable, but didn't really bring us any closer together. At least not for me. I'm currently in the best relationship I've had and I don't take any drugs any more (including alcohol).
Safety and research is imperative with it. People will buy pills without ever asking their dealer the amounts, and will take them way too often without realizing it.
You can definitely screw yourself up doing it too often, or doing too much at once.
Even if you know the strength just having big amount around is risky - it's very hard to stop until you run out which at some point starts causing damage.
I had a girlfriend who had mixed feelings and gave it up as well, because at the time she had no way of verifying the purity and suspected she was usually getting a dose of cheap stimulants in addition to or instead of MDMA. The dealbreaker was that after one experience she suddenly developed a severe teeth-grinding problem. It persisted for at least several years afterwards; maybe longer, since I haven't spoken with her about it in a long time.
I was always too cautious to take drugs from unknowable sources, but based on the positive things she said, I'm curious about therapeutic uses of MDMA and would be open to trying it with my therapist, if I had way to be confident in the safety and purity of it. I think the only way I would feel comfortable would be if it came from a pharmaceutical source, so I probably won't be trying it any time soon.
I think I'd say the same, although it's hard to say if it was 'the greatest experience' (and what that means) or just 'pure bliss' due to the drugs.
I've got a bit of a love/hate relationship with MDMA. I tried it for the first time around age 26, and did it about 4x a year the 3 years after, usually with my girlfriend. In the past year I've not done any drugs and am conflicted about where to go from here.
The initial experiences the first year were really just pure bliss in a way I'd not experienced before, and the feeling of being on cloud 9 lasted pretty strongly for weeks, and months later I could still relive the good feelings by recollecting it, or listening to certain music. As you describe, speaking comfortably with your partner was amazing. The feeling of having empathy for a loved one, and receiving it back, was one of the most wonderful aspects of it, the one I probably enjoyed the most, and longed for while sober. (more-so than the body-feel, the touching, the music, all of which was amazing too).
In the second year of use that developed into a more black/white experience of a heavy-upper and then a complete lack of it the day after. I don't think I had any downers, but the contrast between pure bliss one moment, and a very regular mundane living room setting that same evening, was definitely strange. It put the presence or absence of happiness in the spotlight, whereas before I didn't generally pay that much attention to my state of happiness. Feeling bliss wasn't an obsession, and lacking it wasn't an issue. After MDMA, that calculus changed a little bit.
In that year I also realise how artificial the experiences of drugs were. MDMA still gave me amazing experiences with friends and my SO, some of the conversations we'd not normally have really did have lasting effects in a positive way. At the same time, it felt like we were cheating. Feeling comfortable enough on drugs to discuss certain things is great, but it also highlighted we weren't communicating completely honestly without drugs. And lastly, there were some indications that we weren't the same person on drugs, either, and that the drug personality wasn't necessarily the 'real one' that lies underneath without inhibitions. I've seen friends cheerfully smile as they told me their phone was stolen at a festival due to drugs, whereas they lost precious pictures/data and money (which they couldn't afford), and were devastated about this the next day.
I still enjoyed MDMA without any cynicism, but the rose-tinted glasses had come off.
In the third year of use I think I noticed I was slightly less happy generally, and while on drugs the highs weren't as high. It's hard to isolate this, it could have a million causes. But my feeling was my brain has been altered for the worse due to the drugs and that it was time to stop. It's been a year now and I'm quite happy to have stopped. At the same time, an amazing experience unlike any other is a few dollars and 30 minutes away. I'm happy to have tried drugs, but I kind of feel it's probably best for me to stay away from it from now on and treat it like a middle-class family treats a Michelin star restaurant: every few years, on vacation, you may indulge, but otherwise you don't think about it. I think those who can limit it to once a year or even less, will find MDMA is quite amazing. For those like me who went down the rabbit hole a bit and tried it multiple times a year for years (or worse, those who do it every weekend), probably will suffer at some point.
> it felt like we were cheating. Feeling comfortable enough on drugs to discuss certain things is great, but it also highlighted we weren't communicating completely honestly without drugs
Take my input with a grain of salt. I am no professional.
But to me it is just like saying it is cheating to go to a therapist and talk about things you won't normally talk about. The whole point of these experiences is to shift your perspective so you can explore things under different lights. Doesn't make these experiences any less valid. You shouldn't beat yourself because it was chemically induced state of openness, it is awesome you can go there if you need to, as long as the altered state doesn't become a refuge.
> I think I'd say the same, although it's hard to say if it was 'the greatest experience' (and what that means) or just 'pure bliss' due to the drugs.
This reminds me of something I periodically see about ADHD medicine. There’s some debate about whether it makes you more productive or whether it just makes you feel like you’re more productive.
I’m pretty firmly undecided about whether or not the distinction even matters.
Having recently started low dose Concerta about 3 weeks ago after an ADHD diagnosis at 37, I can’t really say anything directly about productivity yet. What I can say is that, for me, it has made the non-interesting parts of work and life way easier to do: paying bills, keeping the house tidier, sitting in status meetings, carefully reading through project plans and requirements documents, managing unread email, etc. Additionally, I have made exactly zero impulse purchases since starting, which would generally not be the case over a 3 week period.
Many people report feelings of “wearing glasses for the first time” after their first few doses of either amphetamine or methylphenidate. I haven’t had that kind of wow moment yet, but there has definitely been a subtle shift in my behaviour.
I don't think it's at all controversial that it has this effect in the short term.
The questions are:
(1) Is the effect unique to people with ADHD, or does everyone get this focus boost?
(2) Is the effect sustainable over the long term, or are you just building up to an eventual crash where you have to wean yourself off the drugs very painfully.
I don't really have any firm opinions on the answers, but I do think that your first few weeks of experience doesn't count for much.
I absolutely agree that the first few weeks don’t count for much, and am very curious to see how this all pans out in the long term.
What I can contribute to #1 is that, apparently (per my psychiatrist), people who experiment with drugs sometimes discover that drugs like cocaine and amphetamine behave quite differently for them than with non-ADHD people; instead of getting ramped up, they find it calms them down. Of course, with a sufficiently high dose they’ll get ramped up too, but there’s a pronounced, confusing (to the user) dip in the dose response that the people around them don’t seem to experience. I’ve never tried either, so I can’t comment on that first hand.
Well described, I've gone through the same path and agree a lot. In fact there's a good amount nearby, but there hasn't been much of a temptation even though raves are back in action. It's been over 1.5 years now.
I do feel like there's some sort of damage from it. Feel like I stutter a bit more, and somedays I'm very socially apprehensive. Do you think time can heal from it?
My personal experience is that it is impossible to tell whether I got more socially apprehensive or just more sensitive to it - now that I have experienced times under the effects of this drug where I was very pro social and fearless. The older I get I feel like I was super insecure and socially awkward my whole life but I didn’t know anything else so it felt normal. Now I feel depressed sometimes and have social anxiety, but sometimes I don’t.
I experienced a similar thing by going to therapy. I don’t necessarily get better overall, but more confident in handling the dark times.
I personally feel I used to have quite a good memory, able to remember things I was told without being interested. Now I feel my memory is sharp with those items I find important to remember, but details of random conversations I don’t automatically store anymore. When revisiting those conversations later I find myself noticing I forgot things. I also search for words a bit more often. But it’s hard to recognise the pattern and even harder to trace it to MDMA.
But it is all in line with the impact on memory tasks from academic studies on MDMA users.
Not familiar with the symptoms you noted personally or academically.
My hunch is that damage will be partially temporary and partially permanent. But really it’s just a hunch.
Anecdote time (throwaway account from a regular). From 2017 to early 2021, I was in an on/off relationship with a girl. Every time it ended, it would end up in the next few months of me getting drunk and then abusing her via messages or phone. I am also introvert, depressed and lonely so the abuses could get really bad. She eventually had to block me from all communication except email.
The last time this happened was in early 2021. At that time, one of my friends was about to leave for another country for work. My friend luckily managed to find a dealer. For around 3 months before he left, both of us would have an ecstasy pill each (not pure MDMA) every weekend and party. The abuses stopped and over time I did not feel any more anger towards the girl. Once my friend left, I stopped the ecstasy every week even though I take one every 2-3 months. However, my mental health has improved remarkably and I am now focused on re-skilling myself. I have never been so positive in my life.
I like to think MDMA has given me a second chance in life and it is up to me to make the most of it.
My supposed girlfriend actually enjoyed experimenting with drugs before we met, and occasionally used to do cocaine. I never touched them, even though I drink and smoke. Perhaps if I got the chance to do MDMA with her a couple of times our relationship could have been better. But I will never know.
I did a lot of MDMA and ecstasy in my 20s. The experience definitely rewires you. I’m laughing at anyone who has never done it, or any psychedelics, speaking with authority on the matter and harrumphing about a lack of evidence. Do a high dose and you’ll see everyone around you in a new light.
Now, I really just want everyone to feel great. Most people who I talk to seem to be stuck in a rut of stimulus/response patterns and feel unappreciated. I really enjoy listening to people, even their bullshit. Making someone laugh is one of the most enjoyable and satisfying things in the world.
I've done psychedelics and a bunch of different drugs, and honestly I don't see how it's any different from getting drunk. Sure, being drunk is different from being high on acid, but that's also different from being high on THC. It's just a bunch of different ways of your brain being effectively poisoned and acting in weird ways.
It's fun, it might even be called liberating, and it definitely can affect your brain. But let's not go so far as to suggest that it's this magic thing that will turn you into an awesome person.
Now, they do say that alcoholics make the best writers, and likewise I'm sure that some people are more creative when they are on psychedelics or other drugs (assuming that by "creative" one means the ability to create abstract art, not the ability to design a bridge). But it also comes with a significant cost in intelligence and coherence.
LCD in my experience allows you to take note of things that have fallen outside of your perception filters. Such as squeaky door that you said you would oil but you delayed doing so and eventually it just became part of the door and you stopped noticing. I attribute any creativity to this weird fresh perspective. You could even argue that altered states always can give new perspective by virtue of what they are.
MDMA was different. I was in my 30s before I tried it: Before that point, I generally suggested folks do shrooms or LSD at least once in their life. Not anymore. MDMA can change the way you relate to yourself and your experiences. Profound change - things like no longer being so bothered by traumatic things in your past. There is good reason there are stories of MDMA being used as a marriage counseling guide: You are more comfortable and open talking about things you might have avoided. Which, really, is why it is being used for therapy and PTSD. Many of us just don't need the therapy bit.
Sidenote: I make both abstract and non-abstract art while tripping - the non-abstract tends to be a little surreal. Of course, I make art while sober, too - both abstract and not. I*m sometimes just more free when I am on LSD, but I do make similar stuff sober. Abstract art isn't a lack of creativity, by the way.
But this is because I do art. If you were doing a lot of maths or sciences, LSD might allow you to figure out a problem from a point of view you didn't consider before. Or maybe you make music and get some creativity there - this is really common too. LSD doesn't mean you are making bad products, just that you should look over them when sober to be sure.
Of course, you might be on of the many people that cannot make a straight line with a pen while on LSD, and that's pretty normal.
I unfortunately did tons of ecstasy between 18 and 30. I was obsessed with for a few years. At one point it was once a week. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Once you've experienced pounding house music, mdma and flashing lights it feels like everything else is just meh. The comedowns became so bad I seriously couldn't think of anything I'd like to do less now. About 4 years ago I took it at a festival I didn't enjoy it at all. I hadn't done it in about 5 years. I just felt confused and anxious. My wife used to love doing it too. I can see how it helps people open up. I also think it's given some pretty bad short term memory issues. Other heavy users I know say the same thing.
About ten years ago I met an old friend whose life had gone to complete shit, he was obviously very paranoid and worried, bizarrely asked me and my other friend had we been laughing at him when all three of us shared a joke. He was a very very heavey user at one point. Prior to all this he was bright and out going. Now just wreck.
Anyway, it's a seriously potent drug with some serious long term effects (imo)
I think it's important not to conflate ecstasy or whatever street/party drugs are widely available, and whatever excipients or other additions, with actual pure MDMA.
Furthermore, folks should realistically do some research. I've done a fair amount of MDMA, but have never done ecstasy. I knew starting up that once a week was most definitely too much - of course, maybe I was older than most folks when they try it.
I wouldn't know - I have never done ecstasy. I've done MDMA, which was pure and definitely not ecstasy. And from what I understand, it is a different experience - you don't get the same after effects from ecstasy.
And I'll go as far as to say that once a week is definitely too often: The spouse and I were more concerned about being safe and not getting the stress and burnout we knew could happen, but isn't as likely if you have good space. I think the most we have ever allowed ourselves was once a month and I've never taken it at festivals. Just home.
Heavy use is often always different. And this is one of those very real things that legalisation could help with - actual information to keep people safe.
I've done both. Mdma crystals tends to feel way softer somehow, I think because pills are often cut with other speedier type drugs. Sleep was easier on mdma but the come down was still hell if you took enough. I had come downs that went on for days maybe even a week. I hate all of it now :)
I've not generally had an issue, but I - for lack of better words - take "reasonable" doses of such drugs, so I suppose that is some of my approach. I mean, I drink somewhat regularly too, but rarely actually get drunk rather than comfortably buzzed. I've never had such a comedown, though I know of folks that eventually had a bad reaction (panic attack, specifically) over time.
I def think there is something to that. And the short term memory thing is true too... like you're kind of in a daze and not as sharp sometimes. Paranoia and hypersensitivity to social situations too.
Haven't done in over 1.5 years, still has a stack, and not sure if will save for a special occasion or just throw away.
> I've done psychedelics and a bunch of different drugs, and honestly I don't see how it's any different from getting drunk. Sure, being drunk is different from being high on acid, but that's also different from being high on THC
I've also done psychedelics and my experience is the opposite.
I really don't see being high on THC or on acid the same as being drunk on alcohol at all.
Maybe it's because I don't like / enjoy alcohol but I do enjoy cannabis and psychedelics.
But when I'm drunk I can feel I'm unable to think properly and everything seems to be laggy.
I don't get any of that with thc and psychedelics, it's a different state of mind sure, but I don't think it's being induced by "poisoning your brain"
The way alcohol has impacted me since 18 has changed so much in a decade. It used to give me brilliance and energy. Now it's truly a depressant. More than 2-3 drinks and I start sliding into a nihilistic slop. I don't see much use for it anymore. But it's so popular and ubiquitous that I do partake... maybe should just stop.
Actually, my first times getting hammered were amazing too. I've also taken the just-a-poison stance about drugs, sober reality wins in the end and so on. But oh man did that substance reveal things I never imagined were in me...
Seconded. I took MDMA when I was younger and I think it accelerated some mood/behavioral issues I had prior, making them much worse. I’ve only recently started to realize that I have never been “happy” since after taking them. Someone will chime in “well yeah you shouldn’t have taken them! Duh!”, thanks captain obvious but not everyone knows that.
Yep, drugs can be dangerous, it cannot be understated enough. I've experienced both sides of the coin. For me, the profound thing that drugs has done is to provide a standard form of measurement within my own subjective experience. I now rate every euphoric thing as 10% mdma-intense, 50% mdma-intense and so on. What blew my mind is that I have experienced certain sober euphoric experiences that were much more intense than mdma (e.g. doing a meditation retreat and during that retreat I sometimes found myself mindfully in the zone, that was much more intense).
The same goes for the existentialism part when it comes to psychedelics. I have a new perspective on having children while not having had children myself. But the whole idea of that they are little reflections of you and your girlfriend bundled up in one which makes huge emotional impact on you, that makes a lot more sense now.
Or another one: sometimes I act like I'm on mdma (while I'm sober and reasonable enough), those days are a blast!
How drugs screwed me over: 6 months to a year of almost losing touch with reality (constantly needing to stay rational, so that I wouldn't lose myself) or being a bit too paranoid for a few months (just a bit). Or wanting to jump out of the window while on shrooms (I had countermeasures in place, never thought I needed them).
So yea it's dangerous stuff. You can learn something amazing from them, but you can also learn a lot from intense exercise drills (if you treat them like a drug-like experience), or meditation, or dancing, or singing, or falling in love, or making friends, or talking with friends.
I have had a limited number of mdma trips and each one has been special.
Last time I measured out a small dose and went for a walk alone, then ran into a friend and got to talking about my current boggle, drew a straight line between that and my childhood and teenage experiences and… woke up in the next morning feeling deeply depressed and just had to put myself together again to get my plans moving and in two hours I had.
If ever there was an example of ‘drug enhanced talking therapy’ that was it.
My understanding though is that it is rough on your serotonin system and if you do it hundreds of times it is more harm than good.
Have you done pure MDMA? Like actually tested it before hand to make sure? It’s an extremely different experience to alcohol or other psychedelics. Your description sounds more like the cut E that is mostly just speed or other drugs.
In some more liberal countries you can buy kits that let you know what you've just bought off that bloke at the end of the bar with the stickers still on his baseball cap.
It's also important to mention that pure MDMA is much rarer in the US than it is in Europe, and given that HN is very majority American, it is likely to find more experiences with bad quality MDMA here than you would in another forum
You can’t just equate any psychoactive substance with alcohol. Ethanol is a central neural system depressant, other substances can have very different effects.
That said, instead of using substances to alter my mental state, personally I am more interested in being able to manipulate my sober state itself on demand from within. (Can’t say I had much success though.)
> It's just a bunch of different ways of your brain being effectively poisoned and acting in weird ways.
What makes you say this? As far I'm aware, the typical dosages that people use with psychedelics, when taken in a safe environment, don't cause any negative health effects -- and often have some positive long-term benefits.
You don't need a high dose of MDMA: In fact, the recreational guidelines line up with the therapeutic doses. I personally do really well on a little less than the standard for the first (larger) dose. I still throw up, but my body handles things much better and I still wake the next day feeling like someone massaged my brain.
You don't need a high dose of LSD either, though it has been a really, really long time since I had any sort of aha! moment with it - but I*m pretty comfortable with myself and have done a LOT of LSD over the years. Mushrooms are similar, so long as you take enough to be out of commission for a little while.
Sidenote: Thanks for being one of the people that wishes good tidings on other folks. You rarely know when that attitude is the thing that changes their day (or more).
First, look things up to be safe! I cannot stress this enough.
In general, 125mg for the first dose, then an option of 65mg about 1,5 hours later. My memory is fuzzy since I'm not generally the one weighing it out and it has been a while. I would rather 100-110 for the first dose personally.
They have tested different doses, but this is a good general guideline.
Thanks was just curious, see my other post, I won't touch mdma every again. Interesting back in the day they d say a strong pill had about 80mg in god knows now, I hear they got much stronger. Last time I did it we d moved on to crystals that required smashing up
It's an interesting theory. My personal experience with the drug has been positive but it's very hard to say if it was necessary for me to get where I am now.
I had crippling social anxiety throughout my teens and into my early twenties. I had fully accepted that I would always be alone and I was happy for the most part. This all changed around age 25 as I (seemingly all of a sudden) became physically attractive enough for women to be interested in me. Without wanting to go into too much detail, my life was turned upside down and I started to learn lessons about people, society and relationships that I feel like I should have learnt 10 years prior. I no longer have social anxiety and can have meaningful relationships with people.
During this renaissance period I did use MDMA. But what did it do for me, if anything? Did it enable me to learn these lessons in a way that a normal 25 year old wouldn't be able to? Or did it show me things I wouldn't have seen otherwise, but were still within my natural ability to learn? Or was it simply a fun thing I did but ultimately I would've got where am I today anyway?
My feeling is the drug did help me, but I wouldn't just recommend it to others in my position. It won't do anything for you if you just take it in your bedroom with no other changes happening in your life. But if you find yourself, like me, learning how to be social much later in life, it might be worth a try. It won't harm you if you do your research (read erowid).
Pretty much my story as a whole, especially research part. Know your limit and it really helps understanding different aspect of things which is usually not even a equation in daily life.
> It won't do anything for you if you just take it in your bedroom with no other changes happening in your life
Interestingly, that's the way many people have reported having their lives changed by it. And that's roughly how it's being used in the latest breakthrough clinical trials (for MDMA and psilocybin). There is a therapy component, but it seems to be play a relatively minor role. https://maps.org/news/multimedia-library/2379-can-a-single-p...
That's really interesting if it helps people on its own. I really thought it was only by actually bonding with other people during my experiences that I was healed. One of the things I did was tell someone about some of insecurities. Not because I was trying to heal myself, though. I had never even heard of MDMA being used for therapy. It just felt like the right thing to do at the time. After that moment I just realised that these silly things really don't matter. I was able to let them go, so to speak. Maybe I would have been able to let go on my own? But it's hard to imagine spilling those once shameful secrets to someone without help of the drug.
Its an utter abomination that MDMA and psychedelics are criminalized.
I find law laughable in this regard and i find law makers a bunch of clowns for not giving me the basic freedom of finding ways to make myself happy.
We need a constitutional law that prohibits prosecution for victimless crime. And we needed it already a long time ago. Think of all the resources wasted, lives destroyed by upholding such rotten laws: laws against having fun.
It all goes back to the Vietnam War, and Nixon trying to crack down on the subculture of hippies that seemed to be the source of much political contest for him.
How comes this affects the rest of the world even heavier than it does the USA then? Weed and shrooms get legalized/decriminzlized all over the States, MDMA and ketamine therapies are available, ADHD patients have their adderall, yet in most of the countries all these are criminalized heavily and carrying even a tiny dose with you aboard a plane is unthinkable.
This is a problem with trade deals. Having a trans-atlantic trade deal between the USA and the EU (so you could just buy stuff from overseas like you do within your home union - without customs clearance and extra taxation) would be amazing but every time such is proposed it comes with a requirement to start a nonsensical war on "Internet piracy".
I read m again. But how is a looking for a solution to the problematic reason that kept this kind of research outcomes out of the hands of the public for decades not part of "curious conversation"?
People seem to upvote it. I think this is a serious issue holding us back as a species.
"utter abomination", "laughable", "a bunch of clowns", etc. is not "looking for a solution", it's internet ranting.
That sort of thing makes discussion more predictable. That's really why we don't want it here. It's not about disagreeing on the issues, it's about wanting to say and hear things that we haven't all said and heard many times before.
I agree possession should be decriminalized. But even comments in this very thread prove that it is a dangerous substance and should not be readily accessible to buy, certainly not before you can buy alcohol.
“Critical periods are periods of time, usually during development, where the brain is extremely sensitive to the outside world and the ecologically relevant cues that it needs to learn from,”
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