The easiest way to find the owner/operator would be to carry a few cans of white spray paint in your backpack and paint the solar panels on every one that you find. Or, clean out your closet and haul your ill-fitting clothes up the hill and drape every one of the panels.
It won't take long for someone somewhere to start griping. Then you bust them and levy appropriate fines or penalties and force them to remove all of it, everywhere at their expense. Make an example out of them in the most humiliating manner legally allowed so that no one else ever thinks it will be a good idea.
I have replied to the other poster in this thread.
I understand that there may be some scientific value to these antennas and potentially a public benefit. That makes it even more ridiculous to me that those responsible chose not follow the rules around installing things like this on public lands since it is likely dead simple to gain support for something that will provide a clear public benefit, maybe even enough support that it effectively is paid for by the use of public monies. Clearly these people intended no public benefit or they would've lobbied locally for support.
You want to humiliate and make an example of someone for... putting antennas on public land? Sure it's not legal but that doesn't justify such a weird response. This is closer to painting graffitis than anything else, jesus christ.
> This is closer to painting graffitis than anything else, jesus christ.
There is a significant difference between these installations, which over time turns into several pounds of electronic waste at each spot, vs a few fluid ounces of spray paint used for tagging or grafiti.
It's in the interest for the public and for nature that these illegal installations be stopped.
I guess so? They are also very easy to dispose of, and as for the electronics waste part, it doesn't really make a difference since it would also be thrown out eventually even if it had permission to be there. To me, it seems very, very much easier to dispose of this than almost anything else. Again, fine whoever did this, but I still think humiliation and making an example out of this is such an extremely disproportionate response.
> I guess so? They are also very easy to dispose of
I take it you didn't read the article nor watch the video in the source. It took a full day's effort of several state workers to hike up, remove, and safely bring all that crap down in unsafe winter conditions.
That's similar to graffitis. I agree it's not great, but my point is about the proportionality of the response here imo. Do you really think this is worth such a vengeful response?
I agree with you about the impact of these antennas and also see the comparison of this with simple graffiti, which is also a huge problem today with so many social media idiots discovering that there are national parks and that they are completely unguarded where any fool can do any foolish thing for the cameras, including destroying irreplaceable pictographs or petroglyphs or stealing shards of pottery or arrowheads from archaeological sites that have not been investigated.
It is important to realize that private companies operating on public lands have specific rules they must follow for their access and their operations are subject to monitoring for compliance with all the rules in place.
Years ago I worked in Utah in Four Corners area on a geophysical crew. We operated mostly on public lands managed by the USFS (United States Forest Service) and BLM (Bureau of Land Management) for those who don't know. We operated up to the border of at least one National Park and needed to drive through for access to some locations that were adjacent to but not otherwise accessible from roads outside the park due to terrain features including rivers and deep canyons.
Our crews had bureau archaeologists leading the way across the land and flagging (to prevent access to) any areas with visible signs of prior habitation, cultural artifacts, petroglyphs and pictographs. Since the local environment was very fragile, our equipment had to operate in a narrow easement and damage to living vegetation could have caused us to be denied access and resulted in cancellation of our operating permit. Personnel were required to pack out everything that they packed in including food wrappers, food scraps and peels, cans and bottles, flagging, etc. BLM and USFS crews followed behind us to insure compliance. The idea presented to us in pre-stage meetings was that the client company had paid for the privilege to explore and that non-compliance with the simple rules of access would mean that our permit was invalidated. Losing a permit in the mid-80's in the oil and gas business meant that you likely had no job. That was in the early years of an extended bust in exploration that ended in the early 90's with the price increases and the rise of horizontal drilling.
I see no reason why any entity seeking to operate on public lands should not be required to follow the simple rules we followed. If they can't be bothered then they upon discovery they should be made to feel the full weight of non-compliance. Society has already defined a set of consequences and allowing everyone to escape consequences just results in an escalation of non-compliance.
It isn't just about putting antennas on public lands.
There are people who visit public lands and parks and paint graffiti on archaeological sites. I don't need to mention how destructive this can be and hope we can agree that destroying sites like this should be punished harshly.
Installing antennas without permission on public lands may not seem like a big deal but if everyone were allowed to go out and do whatever they wanted to do on public land then most of our public land would've been stripped bare decades ago.
There are rules in place that help us all find a common ground and baseline from which we can all operate without interfering with other's rights. Fees are designed so that operators on public lands pay royalties to the treasury for the right of access and production of public resources from public lands - mining, logging, oil and gas exploration, etc.
Someone has decided to ignore the process, avoid any fees, and to avoid asking permission. Perhaps they operate under the bullshit maxim that it's easier to ask forgiveness than to do the paperwork required to obtain permission especially if obtaining permission would expose themselves and their operations to too much scrutiny. Since an installation like this probably requires permits where the operator has to define their specific use case, potentially do some environmental impact and archaeological site study assessments, obtain radio spectrum broadcast licenses, etc then they would rather try to avoid paying for any of that while they reap the benefit of the network they are building and operating.
I see no reason not to throw the book at everyone involved including anyone who assisted in the installations by providing labor.
If this later turns out to be something with a clear public benefit then make them pay all costs of legalizing their operations and tack on all the costs associated with investigating these antennas, identifying them and removing any equipment before they became a legal operator. Use appropriate media to inform the general public about the process and the findings and the reasons for any penalties assessed. Appropriate media, not social media.
I personally don't have a problem with making them regret ever trying to become an exception to the rules they have decided to ignore.
When you consider that most access to public land for private uses comes with ridiculously low fees and relaxed rules there really is no excuse for non-compliance. Many of the fees for use have not been increased in decades and some may still date to the last part of the 19th century. With that in mind it makes no sense for anyone with a legitimate use case to avoid paying the fees and making it all above board unless they know in advance that gaining approval for their installations would not happen once those in charge of managing public lands understand what they intend to do.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and/or companies just going out and doing whatever they want to do ignoring all the rules and regulations that are in place and then escaping consequences when they are found to be operating outside the laws.
Humiliate them. Fine them. If existing penalties specify jail time then jail them. How many times would one need to do this before others decided to just follow the existing rules and carry on?
It won't take long for someone somewhere to start griping. Then you bust them and levy appropriate fines or penalties and force them to remove all of it, everywhere at their expense. Make an example out of them in the most humiliating manner legally allowed so that no one else ever thinks it will be a good idea.
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