I have an ErgoDox EZ at home, and a Moonlander for work. I absolutely love these keyboards. They have played a significant role in reducing pain I experience from arthritis.
I can totally relate. I bought my ErgoDox EZ a while ago and I still love it.
I changed the switches for some lubed linears, and added some foam and now it even sounds better. It also reduced my wrist pain.
I'm debating with myself whether to get the Moonlander or not. I don't actually need it, but it looks so cool (and the USB port of the ErgoDox is quite outdated haha).
I love my ergodox ez. I got the moon lander, and it looks cool but I do not like it. Niether does my friend. The tenting tilts the thumb away which makes it uncomfortable. I wish I just got another ergodox ez (eventually I did).
> W: "Another one?! You already have one for the house and one for the office... Where is this one going to go?"
You might be confusing “wife is interested in my hobbies” with “wife is not happy”. The former is what you described and the latter is literally what GGGP said.
Going over expenses together with your partner is important. If you don't have a partner, then you can spend money on whatever you want; you're only going to impact yourself.
Unless GP is close to destitute, bickering over spending $400 on their primary tool that presumably keeps them gainfully employed is the literal definition of micromanagement.
I do have a partner and she has autonomy over the money we earn together as do I, because we trust each other to make reasonable decisions.
You can't both have autonomy over the same resource.
It sounds like you and your partner have a mutual understanding of the other's spending, and your expenses are low enough and/or your income is high enough that it doesn't create problems when you spend below the implicit limits.
That's great for you, but it comes across as narrow-minded to talk as though a $400 expense is unworthy of discussion to every couple.
“Unworthy of discussion” vs. “isn’t going to be happy” is a good way to move the goalposts.
I suppose I’m just tired of the juvenile meme of “my wallet is going to hurt” or “my wife [almost always wife, and never husband; what does that say?] is going to be upset” at <insert hobby>.
If that’s the level of trust one has in their life partner, one ought to take a closer look at what’s really important to oneself.
steep learning curve if you've never used a split\ortho board but once you learn how to type again (couple of weeks for me), other than that my wrist pain is now gone!
only real downside is people asking why I have a pair of glowing oven gloves on my desk
I'd like to add that switching to a drastically different keyboard is the perfect opportunity to simultaneously switch keyboard layouts if thats something you've been considering. I switched from QWERTY to a layout based on Programmer Dvorak when I got my Moonlander. I'm really glad I did.
This was exactly my line of thought when I got the Moonlander (except I thought Colemak). It has been gathering dust in my shelf for almost 2 years now.
Two years or so in, I'm hooked. I've already decided that if I return to office I'll need one for each location (not interested in carrying one back and forth).
I've used an "ergonomic" "split layout" keyboard for years. Specifically, I used the MSFT Natural 4000 since about 2010 due to RSI and typing-related pain. Even with that keyboard, I still had pinky/ring-finger related RSI from modifier keys (shift/ctrl/esc), but it was rather minimal if I was careful and kept my "off-hours" related typing minimal.
I picked up the Moonlander after looking at multiple truly-split keyboards including the Ergodox, Nyquist, Kinesis Advantage 2 (and later 360). I've used a Via/QMK keyboard as well and I will say that Oryx and the Configurator seem much more user-friendly and featureful.
The auto-shift feature is great, as I rarely need to use the shift key for normal typing. Having a toggle key to quickly disable it for things like gaming or the odd application that doesn't detect keydown/up for shifted keys as expected (or perhaps it's on the kbd firmware side and isn't sending a held-down shifted key, who knows) is rather useful.
Layers are your friend and don't be worried about printing out a layer map while you're learning. And don't be afraid to change your layout to try something.
I changed my layout multiple times a day for the first two or so weeks, maybe once a day for another two weeks, then perhaps once a week to once a month over the next few months. I think I last changed my layout 6 months ago to add a new shortcut for a feature added to my IDE.
If you're already accustomed to a split keyboard, expect minimal growing pains beyond learning your layer keys and such. But if it's your first time using a split KB, then you'll have that adjustment too. MSFT used to have a sculpted kb that wasn't a full split and that was a good "training wheels" kb for a split, but I don't think they make that board anymore. Basically, if you don't alrady use a split, expect to reach for keys on the other side a bit until your brain adjusts.
I also suggest using background colors in your layers to indicate hotkeys and such. It started as a crutch for me, but I've come to really like it as it serves as a bit of a reminder for those less-used shortcuts.
The ability to hot-swap your key switches and caps is great. I ended up with a highly tactile switch that isn't much louder than the usual "cherry MX browns", but that is entirely optional. The out of the box keys are perfectly fine for those not interested in that feature.
I have one. Personally, I prefer the Kinesis Advantage2 when it comes to plain typing, because I find dipping my hands into a well of keys is more a little comfortable than tenting them. The Moonlander has better software, aesthetics, and is more compact (which would be useful for someone else, but not me). The main reason I got it, though is that it supports GeminiPR, which makes it suitable for stenography.
Ortholinear split takes a while to get used to but you really never want to go back to a regular keyboard after you get used to it - it makes you feel like you've been breaking your wrists.
I don't like it either but if it's like the moonlander it's fully customizable and uses QMK under the hood, so the sky is the limit.
I don't really like having a lightshow on my keyboard so the LEDs are off all the time for me but in the past I've used them to change color depending on the layout I'm using for instance. I'm sure a more creative hacker could come up with something useful.
Then disable it. It's a preference option that can be used to express yourself or even indicate things in your layer configuration.
I switch backlight colors based on layout. The default typing layer is in my favorite shade of blue, then when I'm on my "ide shortcut/F-key layer" then it switches to a complementary share of orange. When I'm on my "common shortcuts/media control" layer it switches to purple for valid shortcut keys while the media keys have their own color layout to more quickly indicate where back/fwd/play/mute is.
No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.
I don't mind them in devices like this, where the configuration is built into the device firmware. Where I found it incredibly frustrating was with the Razer laptops, where the rainbow stream would run constantly until the Synapse software finally launched and it switched to your preferred configuration. I wish default on some of these devices was just basic white or off to keep from running into issues.
I have a key that toggles between keyboard layers, of which there are three. Different layers are assigned different colors. If I forget which layer I'm on then I can just glance at the keyboard and know. The LEDs are similar in purpose to a Caps Lock indicator.
And for the third layer, which has only a dozen or so keys defined, the keys that are defined are lit up in their own color. This layer sees less use than the first two, so it is helpful guidance to remember which are defined.
I have criticisms about the keyboard -- Moonlander -- but none are about the LEDs. The LEDs are useful and not simply moronic eye-candy as you seem to imply.
maybe cultural context would make more sense. I mean I was always into things like punk and more dark aesthetics, so maybe it just doesn't make sense to me personally but would make sense for someone who as different contexts.
I think it's just a matter of preference (and maybe a slight generational gap?). I love the rainbow pattern on one of their other keyboards (the retired Planck EZ). IMO it looks very nice on top of a white case which "reflects" the LEDs' color.
It demonstrates the level of control the firmware can have over LEDs. Cheap boards might have a single color setting or only be able to set blocks of keys (i.e. alpha vs modifier keys). No one says you have to use unicorn vomit colors or a constantly shifting color pattern. But it does look good in a demo and does a great job of indicating that it's not a solid color.
Some people don't like the lighting at all, and that's ok. It's a preference and you control it. If you don't like changing colors or lighting whatsoever, then turn it off.
I switch backlight colors based on layout. It helps me remember where less frequently used shortcuts are, and is rather useful to me and I'm sure many others use it in a similar manner. And plenty of people just set a color that matches the color scheme of their desk, office, or computer.
Same. I use Dvorak as my primary layer, as well as blank keycaps, and have a QWERTY gaming layer that has LEDs outlining the standard gaming keys (WASD, crouch, etc).
I'm looking forward to giving the Keychron K15 Pro a spin. It's not _nearly_ as compact as something like the Voyager, but I've never been productive on <75% layouts.
My only missing feature is layer support, so if anyone from Keychron is listening....
A competing option that does include wireless is the Dygma Defy [0], which does have more keys but might be a good option for you if you're okay with not being ultra-minimalist.
If you buy a bt-500 from handheld scientific you can hook up to a powerbank and use it semi wirelessly. You’ve still got a cable going to the powerbank and adapter but at least you don’t have to run a cable to the laptop.
Alternatively keebmaker sell wireless cornes and Ferris sweeps - you’re best off getting the sweep because the leds on the Corne drain the battery life even when they’re switched off.
I am a customer and bought several ZSA keyboards. I specifically DO NO want wireless. I want tried and tested wired with appropriate cable length and that's exactly what they did here.
I have an Ergodox and a Moonlander (and a bunch of other keyboards), but I've already decided I'm not getting anything new until it's available in a wireless option.
"Things you build yourself" aren't really in competition with pre-built things for most people. Also, that Dilemma costs over $200 for an RGB PCB plus case. Add brand-name switches and keycaps, and you're not far off the price of this, and also you had to do the assembly yourself.
I have quite a few of these sorts of keyboards, including the Ergodox EZ. I think for generalist usage they can be adapted to pretty easily, but as a developer, the lack of dedicated keys for [, ] and ' is an insurmountable obstacle for me.
Those keys are in my opinion perfectly placed on regular keyboards and no amount of layering, tap dancing or anything else will ever come close. Please somebody just make a split ergo keyboard where the right side has extra keys for regular programming symbols on the top layer. The two halves do not need to be symmetrical.
I've been using these types of keyboards for a couple years now, and I find that although the enthusiast community has sort of gravitated towards <50 key layouts, trying to achieve the complex combinations often required by IDEs can be an exercise in dexterity (both physically and mentally).
For example, let's say you need to do Shift-Option-F12. First, you need to hold a modifier to bring your F key layer, possibly a separate or chorded modifier to get you to the F-keys above 10 since you only have have 10 numeric digits. Then, that needs to be compatible with both your shift modifier AND your option modifier, which with only 2 thumb keys per side it probably won't be. So, then you think, oh no worries, I'll just set up a single shortcut that does what I need, but then you end up with a profusion of shortcuts that you need to remember.
I've found that in practice, I can't really go much below 58 keys and 3 layers without requiring tap-and-hold or losing some of my less-frequently used chars (` comes to mind), so I can sympathize with the ancestor posts.
"a profusion of shortcuts that you need to remember" -- sure, true, but you're already talking about something esoteric like shift-option-F12. Were you remembering that in the first place?
I hate to be that guy but this line of reasoning leads to “redefine every shortcut for every app” in order to fit your keyboard. Yes, it’s possible, but cognitive overload is also a thing.
It's understandable if some people would prefer a larger layout. I wouldn't argue people should be using smaller keyboards.
It's "I don't mind moving my hand to hit the key" vs "I don't mind holding down some Fn key to hit the key". (Or with F1-F12 on Macbooks, you need to both hold down a Fn key and move your hand).
I picked up the Miryoku layout a year or two ago and the home row mods (Ctrl, alt, shift...) make all the difference. Adding a thumb key into the shortcut to hit a key on a layer doesn't take much extra mental energy and it becomes muscle memory for certain shortcuts. It's a little like playing different chords on the piano. I added some customization for Vim arrow keys and now I don't think I'll ever go back.
While I agree in theory, in practice I feel like there is a noticeable difference between the frequency of F1-12 and the punctuation characters OP listed. Moreover, there are not many tools to help people find layer arrangements that are actually ergonomic besides their own intuition. Layers are surprisingly complex and subtle for many reasons here are a few I can think of:
- Layer transition fatigue: If you have many layers, it can be difficult to remember which key(s) triggers them. This can be improved with time and practice. In addition, you might want to arrange the symbols on your layers to minimize the amount of layer transitions needed. For example, if you type ./ a lot if would be nice if they were on the same layer and either a roll or an alternation.
- Awkward finger patterns: if we go back to the ./ example, if for some reason you decide / must go on another layer, then you probably want / to be close to period. If you design your layer in a way where / ends up under qwerty P, then you’ll have to contort your fingers to make the ./ pattern. This gets way more complicated when you consider all the possible symbol patterns such as ->, =>, :=, </, ./, [i], [j], |>, (“, “), ):, etc…
- Unexpected layer transition same finger usage: people will sometimes naively put layer transition keys in suboptimal places. For instance, if you use right thumb for space, then I would argue it’s a bad idea to use another right thumb key for shift. The reason is because in between sentences you put a space after the previous sentence and then press shift to capitalize the next letter. If they space and shift are on the same finger then you will probably find this sequence uncomfortable. A similar logic applies for backspace. I would argue space and backspace should be on the same thumb because they are pretty much mutually exclusive. Also your space thumb is used to repeating, and backspacing often involves a lot of repeating.
Overall, I think layers do have a lot of potential to work, but I feel like there aren’t many tools to help people iron out all these subtle issues. I’ve been working on making such a tool, but testing it takes a lot of time due to the first point.
Exactly this. I would add also, do you want to accomplish by additional hand/wrist movement (access F-key row) or by additional keypresses (layer, tap-dance, etc)?
If my IDE requires me pushing SHIFT + F3, I would need now to push SHIFT+ALT+F3? How is that in any way more ergonomic? I assume split keyboards are the golden standard of ergonomic design (or I thought they should be).
Modifier key plus the number row gets you that trivially, and it's no different from having to hit Fn + F-key on a laptop. But even better is that if there are things you use regularly, you can map them up to a more convenient place.
And then be unable to quickly use any other keyboard. As someone who has to switch between PC and Mac keyboards (home/end behavior anyone?) it is a minor pain.
I don't use Fn on laptops, that's backwards.
F1-F12 have basic functionality, when I want to play around with something less common (like changing volume, brightness) I use Fn + F key.
I thought this was going to be a barrier for me as well, but after using a Moonlander (one of ZSA's other keyboards) for over a year now, it's not as bad. I have a layer that has F1-10 in place of 1-0, then F11 and F12 are on overflow keys.
I've found that the hotkeys I most frequently use I moved in to more convenient hotkeys/macros (for example code folding/unfolding to three common levels, debugger stepping), while others just stayed where they were.
I would say that you'd probably want to try a larger keyboard than the Voyager though if that's a concern though. I'm reticent to try such a smaller keyboard, and I found the ~70 keys of the Moonlander to be more inline with what I like.
Same I use them constantly, but just set one of your thumb keys to shift to your functions row. You can map all the way up to F24 then! and have any other IDE specific commands in that layer as well.
I use F all over the place in VS-code and have them all mapped on my dygma raise.
Yea I hear this, I moved my ` and | symbols on my dygma raise, an mostly got ride of \ (its on a different layer), since I was only really using it for \n.
The biggest change for me on the Dygma raise was the thumb cluster. I moved my backspace to my thumb, as well as different layer shifting keys. The muscle memory is quite easy to learn, since your brain is already "expecting" to use your thumb to shift to other functionality (since we use our thumb to press command), so it simply makes all my vscode shortcuts 2 simple strokes instead of 3 or more.
Also moved my arrow keys under my fingers on a different layer, makes it so you don't need to move your hands when navigating around code. On that same layer I added option + arrows as well for fast navigation.
I think this is honestly just a thing to get used to. I use the semi-colon/quote keys for [] and p/backslash for {}. It means I need to hit a modifier key to hit them, but you always had to hit a modifier key (aka shift) to hit curly brace anyway, so this really isn't a big deal.
With QMK, "layers" aren't this whole giant huge deal. It's like hitting the shift key, except just a different physical key, probably by your thumb.
YMMV, but I think the Keyboardio Model 01/100 has a pretty great layout for programming. The keys are in a different spot, but they're easily reachable, and the palm layer toggles mean you don't have to contort at all to hit them.
I recently got a Keyboardio 100 but am really finding it hard to adapt to, in large part because too many symbol keys are moved around, making it a pain for programming in particular.
I don't get it, you can make a [ , ] key anywhere. The ] key could be to the right of your pinky on the homerow. The [ key could be the one right above that.
Personally, I have ()[]{} on the home row, activated by a layer and i'm never going back.
Finally. My love of the sweep has proven to be correct, two thumb keys is the way. I am using a ZMK powered Urchin, a sweep variant, as my only daily use keyboard, 34 keys of love.
I think retaining the number row and the outer pinky column makes it more accessible; but I find it odd the design then also removes the lower row of modifier keys, and only gives two thumb keys each.
It's good to use the thumbs more than the pinky fingers. -- But, I'd think an introductory keyboard would retain modifier keys for the pinky fingers to use.
Only two thumb keys seems like it could be a pain. I don't love trying to figure out the timing delays for tap vs hold. After a long search I settled on the Hillside 46 [1][2] which has 4 thumb keys and a splayed layout. Also choc spacing, as I didn't love the gaps between choc keycaps with mx spacing. Not sure why, as the macbook pro keyboard doesn't seem to give me any problems.
I like the all the case options and mods available to the ZSA keyboards. The biggest problem with building your own I feel is the cost of getting a nice, solid feeling case.
> Only two thumb keys seems like it could be a pain.
Depending on the context (mostly in games), I sometimes hit "B" with a thumb on my Ergodox. I think holding B/V for layer toggles could work on this board?
Sorry for the late reply, hope you still read this. Yes, you can use the Glove80 wired, but the communication between the halves will always be wireless.
The idea of the magnetic accessories for a steel case seems interesting.
I've seen some split keyboards have a tripod mount option. But, otherwise, I've not seen ideas for sharing 'accessories' across multiple split keyboard designs.
I'm a bit disappointed by the new offering and the retirement of the Planck EZ.
I fully understand the decisions that were made, and while ZSA's keyboards are phenomenal, there is no way I'd buy one at a 404€ price point (including French VAT, excluding customs costs which would bump it to around 450€). The Planck EZ was great because its price point made it justifiable, mine coming around at ~320€ including VAT and customs, which is the max amount of money I'd be willing to spend.
I don't think we'll ever see something like the Planck EZ again (as in a very compact and more affordable option) since the Voyager is the new "laptop solution", and that honestly sucks.
(Side note for anyone pedant enough to care: these customs costs are both actual customs import taxes and the fee taken by the courier for customs processes)
What's the difference between the Planck EZ and the myriad of other Plancks out there? I have two OLKB Plancks (one is the massdrop version the other is the EOTW variant), and they are both pretty nice Plancks.
Equally as expensive, but really good, team is very responsive and involved with the community, and their customization software is getting better and better.
I have a raise, the build quality is definitely top notch. But their software/firmware is very underwhelming if you want to do anything besides basic key remapping and basic layers.
I just ended up giving up on trying to use their stuff, and opted for software based remapping instead
It looks all right, but the tiny thumb clusters kills it for me. I think Keyboardio really nailed the layout, to the point that pretty much all other similar keyboard designs are DOA for me.
on the keyboardio, how do you accurately hit the right thumb key ? the four thumb keys all have the same shape. I see a high risk of getting them confused.
This is lovely and kind of tempting but, like every keyboard-nerd keyboard, it's made by and for someone who wants the smallest possible number of keys in front of them and a bunch of toggleable modes.
I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back so that when I launch an action in Illustrator I don't have to hold down the fn key, along with whatever other modifier key I may be using to distinguish between a couple other action assigned to that key. I have turned my capslock into command-alt-shift and that helps a lot, I want additional meta keys that I can use for command-shift and command-alt while still having the existing meta keys, not less - this has nine unmarked keys in the default layout, and two of those are probably slated for becoming space and return; my Mac has exactly the same number of meta keys if I count capslock, and dedicated space/return buttons.
Their Moonlander's much more sensible, with a baker's dozen of meta keys around each half's keyboard block. Hitting a little one-handed chord almost seems reasonable, compared to all the one-handed stretches I've got in my daily art routine. I'd be super-tempted by this or an Ergodox EZ if they were putting them on sale because they are no longer the new hotness, they might actually see integration into my workflow, but there's absolutely no price difference.
Maybe I'll just get baked and spend an hour futzing with this idea I just had to make the f-keys of my Mac's keyboard accessible by having Karabiner translate a chord of (fkey)+(the key to its left) into (fkey). I already have the baked part. And that works on my existing laptop keyboard as well as the 90%-identical Apple wireless board on my desk...
EDIT:
I did indeed spend an hour swearing at Karabiner's config file and make f(n)+f(-1) into f(n) and it is wonderful, and I am going to make a fn+f(n)=(nothing) rule to train myself to use it. Thanks for the inspiration, keyboard with too few bucky bits!
> I want more keys. I want my dedicated f-keys back...
This is my issue as well. I want a "normal" keyboard, only ergonomic, split, with all the fancy joint happiness that brings.
It seems these are impossible to find without some kind of 3d printing and DIY from scratch.
I am not able to invest in learning a new keyboarding process because I have to work on too many different computers over a year span that I have no control over, and I don't want my muscle memory to erode because of one special keyboard on my home workstation.
FWIW I have a fairly wacky keyboard (36-key Corne) that uses lots of clever layering to hit different symbols. It took a bit to learn as my daily driver but 1) it's awesome to have all your keys so accessible to the home row, and 2) I haven't experienced any degradation in my muscle memory of normal keyboards, and I only use a normal keyboard (like my MBP) maybe a few times per month.
I agree, and I like the suggestion of the Perixx keyboard. (seems like a knock-off brand though, any ideas on quality?)
MS ergo keyboard's (current mainstay) keys fail every so often, so I have to buy a new one every so often. So yes, something with mechanical keys would be great.
This _could_ be the ideal keyboard. But to find out, I'd have to invest a lot of hours of effort for DIY and/or spend a lot of money. And then what if it's terrible in the end?
This is part of the challenge I face, so I am living with MS ergonomic keyboards until I can either try one of these first, or take a risk.
The [Kinesis Freestyle Edge](https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/edge/) is what you want. It's a full keyboard, with extra keys you can map, and you can choose what switch you want. It's marketed for gamers, but it's good for everyone.
My one complaint is I find the space bar too large. I started used the Freestyle after decades of MS Natural keyboards. It took a while to get used to the size of the space bar.
Sounds like you want something like the Dygma Defy. It has (I think) 8 thumb keys in addition to the standard keyboard array. It's ortholinear, which I find way more sensible.
Huh, yeah, that's a lot better-looking. It's actually got nine thumbkeys. Still got too few keys though, I already hate having the media control keys and f-keys crammed into two layers on a stock Mac keyboard and this makes both of them into layers on top of the numrow.
Fair enough. The configuration I use on my Corne Keyboard, which only has three thumb keys per side, allows for a ton of controls using just those 6 layers. I've found that it's remarkably useful for coding, writing, and manipulating the OS without needing to contort my fingers/hand in any way.
I made a low-profile split keyboard (with Bluetooth) based on the Moonlander layout, but a bit more ergonomic for my fingers: https://github.com/tadfisher/nyx-kb
I think this number of keys in this layout strikes a good balance between portability and usability.
This is the keyboard everyone wants and needs. Right here.
The trouble is, I think most would be willing to maybe 'snap together' the keys and such, but not find a local PCB factory and have them create the boards and such.
Also, the cost should be only ~$100 or less if the device requires DIY.
I tried to quickly find information on how to create this board, or how to buy it directly from somewhere, or just how much it may cost to DIY, and I didn't easily see that type of information.
Ultimately, this is the best keyboard in this thread for this class (very portable, configurable, split kb). This is even better than the Voyager due to the added thumb keys.
> I tried to quickly find information on how to create this board, or how to buy it directly from somewhere, or just how much it may cost to DIY, and I didn't easily see that type of information.
This saddens me, because I put a _lot_ of work into the README for this project. There is a BOM list with all the part numbers you need, pre-made Gerbers for you to send to any PCB house, a vector image for SendCutSend, and step-by-step instructions for soldering and setup. Please give it a re-read and let me know what information is missing.
I'm sorry no one has adopted this board for "mass"-production. It really was a labor of love, and I'm not super into the custom keyboard scene. I could learn how to do some marketing, I suppose.
Thank you for the nice words and praise. It means a lot.
You might like the Matias Ergo Pro. It is the most comfortable keyboard I've ever typed on, and I've owned literally dozens of mechanical, ergonomic, split, and specialty keyboards. It has all the function keys, and it has these terrific large modifier keys in front. I'm a heavy VIM user, but I still appreciate the terrific arrow cluster on that keyboard. And they've got an additional Ctrl key next to N - I love it.
Just be aware that the build quality is terrible. I had two Matias keyboards, neither lasted a year... And I type lightly, preferring 35 gram keys. At $250 each it is quite the investment. But, honestly, they are worth the price. They are _that_ comfortable.
You made me remember the Matias keyboards I bought. They are nice indeed, but I'll never buy one again and I'll always recommend against them for what you pointed out: the quality build is horrible.
I got one that broke after a month, I got a replacement (still had to pay like 50 euros of tax because they shipped from outside of europe) that also broke after a month. In both cases some keys started typing twice.
Yes! Really want a good 80% keyboard (basically a standard keyboard with the number pad chopped off) with some added thumb keys, but everything else mostly positioned where you expect. QMK for configuring.
I'm a long time user of the Microsoft Ergonomic Natural 4000 but they are hard to find now. Don't like the MS Sculpt that much - spongy escape key and those flat keys in general. I've got one in a drawer as a backup for when the 4000 dies, but I'm not looking forward to it.
I recently got a Keyboardio 100[1] but am really finding it hard to adapt to. Moving things like many symbol keys (e.g. "[]\{}|/+=-_") to different locations or layers is a real pain for programming. I really don't know if I'll persist. Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful keyboard, but requires too much adaptation for me.
The closest potential I've found is the X-Bows Knight[2] although the cost of getting one out to the Antipodes makes it a risky proposition if I end up not coping with it.
The layout is eerily similar to one I designed last year [1]. I may be biased, but I'm not sure if it is worth the $365 price point. That being said, it is a bit more refined and has some nice accessories bundled.
I may pick one up for comparison. But, just noting that there is a comparable open source design available. ;)
But budget options pretty much demand a variety of skills.
DIY boards require soldering, and flashing firmware to the microcontrollers. If a mistake is made when soldering, this can be very difficult to diagnose, and harder to fix. -- Paying someone else to solder is sometimes an option, but can be expensive, too.
Even with cheap boards from e.g. AliExpress, you still might have to be familiar with flashing firmware.
For someone with more time than money, DIY is a good option.
With ZSA, I feel I can at least recommend a reputable brand; I'm not sure I can recommend DIY assembly to most people.
Yeah, I agree full DIY is not for everyone, but SMT assembly is pretty affordable even in small batches these days. I just placed an order for 5x of a 60% unibody ortho board and it came out to roughly $40 a piece before switches, case, etc.
I considered the price as well. I do love open source designs more than I love the design of the ZSA Voyager (it has too few thumb keys), but in terms of price, it might actually be fair. Milled steel cases for a Corne or Lily58 are only available via group buys that charge $300-400, and they don't come with either keycaps or switches. I believe it's realistic that you could pay the same amount or more for an alternative.
One of my co-workers was mentioning earlier that he wanted "keyboard pants." This caught my eye because he probably would like hanging it from his belt.
But... There's a wire!
It might be less effort on the vendor's part to source out a simple "wireless USB adaptor" that they can sell as an add-on instead of writing a long-winded "you're wrong" page for people who want wireless.
I want keyboard pants as well. I saw one company having them in the pipeline recently (forgot which) but indeed not wireless which is not great as for things like Vr/ar plugging in will need an extra hub.
I get mild carpal tunnel symptoms when working straight on my Macbook, so I bought a Kinesis Freestyle Pro. The split and tenting are great and do the trick for my wrists but it's got a different layout than the MacBook. And a lot more keys than I need. It's large and a hassle to pack up and take with me.
Why does no one build a split keyboard that has the exact same layout as a MacBook? I feel like that would be my holy grail. I don't even care about mechanical switches (I know, blasphemy!)
The UHK (ultimate hacking keyboard) comes pretty close. I can vouch for its high quality, and it's about as portable as you can get for that many keys without switching to a slim profile like in the OP
I own zsa moonlander (my primary keyboard at home), ergodox ez, dactyl manuform (slightly modified, use at work) and drop preonic.
I won't buy this keyboard. It doesn't have anything attractive to me. 2 thumb keys are not enough. It is wired. It is flat. If I wanted something like that, I'd buy some variant of corne, and it would be more suited for my needs and cheaper.
It still has qmk, and ZSA's configurator is the best that is there, but the same rehashed idea is of a keyboard is not what I wanted. I really hoped for dactyl-like wireless. But I guess that ZSA is too tied to qmk now, and qmk has issues with wireless.
I am happy zsa/ergodox ez user for many years and was waiting for something like this from zsa, since moonlander wasn't for my hands. My current ergodox layout doesn't use keys that are removed on voyager, so everything plays perfectly. I can vouch for the zsa product quality, since my ergodox didn't hiccup for many years with lots of typing.
It is hard to explain to people who never tried qmk layers that more keys doesn't mean better keyboard, having proper layers on home row is many times more ergonomic. One of the things that don't click unless you try I guess.
I have an ErgoDox EZ at home, and a Moonlander for work. I absolutely love these keyboards. They have played a significant role in reducing pain I experience from arthritis.
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