Americans don't think too much about those "commies" in Eastern Europe when doing comparisons. For them Europe is only where they go on vacation: Paris, Rome, Berlin, Barcelona, Lisbon, etc.
Same how for us America is mostly New York, Los Angeles, Texas, etc
Quite a few Americans vacation in Eastern Europe these days, eg Prague. But you’re right that wasn’t historically the case. I didn’t really until my last job because we had a facility and associated events in Brno in cz.
Isn’t Lisbon the most western capital city in Europe? Not sure how that doesn’t count as Western Europe? As a Brit I maybe have a different view of eastern and Western Europe but to me the dividing line is probably a vertical line through … Prague?
Both the areas called Northern Europe and Southern Europe extend more Westerly than Western Europe. More or less no common definition of Western Europe includes the Iberian peninsula.
At the risk of sounding belligerent - Wikipedia seems to include Spain and Portugal in its definition of Western Europe. Perhaps there are formal economic or historic definitions that don’t count them but I think a more colloquial/informal/layperson definition would include them.
Or maybe he's reading that article and you aren't? The only definitions in that article that don't include Spain and Portugal in Western Europe are the ones in which Eastern Europe and Western Europe fail to cover all of Europe.
And those tend to include Turkey in Europe, which is bizarre.
> The only definitions in that article that don't include Spain and Portugal in Western Europe are the ones in which Eastern Europe and Western Europe fail to cover all of Europe.
Which is all of them in common use?
I'm honestly not sure if you read the article.
Do you have the impression that the terms Western and Eastern Europe cover the entire continent? That is a concept divorced from reality.
Edit: Just read your other comment here. Yes, your idea of Eastern and Western Europe is completely divorced from common usage.
In common usage, Western Europe might be countries that are culturally Western (and in Europe), or countries that are clients of the United States (and in Europe), but neither of those would exclude Spain or Portugal. There's not much difference between the two ideas either.
> There’s also a risk that grain yields will be curbed even more across western Europe, particularly in France, Spain and Portugal, according to Paris-based analyst Agritel.
This isn't exactly an obscure question. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Spain might not be part of Western Europe, but it wasn't by contact with reality.
Three counter examples against literally millions in common use, including how the countries involved refer to themselves.
> This isn't exactly an obscure question. I'm not sure where you got the idea that Spain might not be part of Western Europe, but it wasn't by contact with reality.
I take it you did ask your social circle and didn't get the response you wanted, as you're right that this isn't an obscure question.
> What would you say is included in "Western Europe"?
> Germany
> Anything else?
> Spain, why?
You really don't seem to have any idea how people use this term, what might be evidence of common usage, or how newspapers work. Documenting that major media outlets refer to Spain as part of Western Europe is already proof that common usage considers Spain part of Western Europe, unless you have specific reasons to discount those outlets (such as "that's The New Yorker"). Article authors can't just use whatever terminology pops into their head; this is why style guides exist. One example from the Washington Post means hundreds of examples from the Washington Post.
> en verde en general según el concepto tradicional usado en geopolítica [in [non-dark] green generally following the traditional concept used in geopolitics]
> As a Brit I maybe have a different view of eastern and Western Europe but to me the dividing line is probably a vertical line through … Prague?
It shouldn't be a vertical line at all; I assume the typical division between Eastern and Western Europe would be Catholicism vs Eastern Orthodoxy.
They're Eastern Europe and Western Europe because Eastern Europe lies to the east of Western Europe, not because every part of Eastern Europe lies to the east of every part of Western Europe.
> Eastern Europe, Northern Europe etc are not "continental"?
Continental is British English, and in typical standard, it’s ambiguous [1].
I’m arguing that when Americans say European in a cultural context (note: not geographic, geopolitical or historical), we more often than not borrow that British sense. (Consider, for example, the “continental” breakfast [2].)
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