My guess is that if you're a businessman travelling around to do presentations at different places all the time, you probably need maximum compatibility. Sort of a differentiating factor. It also has a LAN port, of which one might ask the same question. Just a guess though.
yeah, people still use vga ports. and when you plug a projector into them, they actually work the first time! even with linux! crazy, i know.
until recently, in our office, the only person whose laptop always worked right with the various projectors was the guy with linux on a thinkpad. macbooks with displayports were reliably unreliable. now the situation has reversed, because the new thinkpads are x1 carbons w/ displayports, and for the macs we hooked up an apple tv to the projector and use AirPlay, which behaves much, much better than the cable ever did.
A lot of people would argue you that, yes, its still widely used. In my experience not so much and its disappearing so quickly that they could have got away with some kind of HDMI + an adapter included on the box. IMHO they should have made the sacrifice.
Don't know about 431 but I absolutely do not like them moving the keys around in 420. The PrntScrn is no longer where it used to be. The Home, End, PgUp, Down keys are all at different places.
This drives me mad. At least Lenovo kept the buttons. Other laptops like Apple and now Dell have dropped them entirely. And for what? "Minimalism" or "elegance" I guess. I'm going to have to hang on to my aging Dell for as long as I can, just for the keyboard :(
The laptop has only one look for Christ's sake! Blue Steel, Ferrari, Latigra? They're the same face! Doesn't anyone notice this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
It's like they're saying "We're almost as good as Apple". Aside from the 180deg. hinge, is there any innovation that they've listed that's not an innovation previously done by other vendors (like Apple)?
Seriously? Why parrot that you're behind the times?
And yet the 13" screen on the 11" body (tiny bezel) Dell XPS still has a higher-res screen than this 14" screen. WAKE UP LENOVO, I really wanted to have a hard decision when choosing to replace my Macbook Air, but I guess the XPS 13 is an easy choice. Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen.
Now if only any store anywhere carried the Chromebook Pixel so I could check it out...
edit: After more reading, rumor has it of a retina MBA 2013. Maybe I'll wait it out.
"Your X1 Carbon is equally gorgeous with an equally crappy screen."
I believe you have incorrect information. I own a Thinkpad X1 Carbon. Its screen resolution is 1600x900, which is not only higher than the typical 1366x768 resolution found on most laptops, but it's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode.
I'm quite happy with my X1 Carbon, FWIW. My favorite feature is the rapid charge, which charges your laptop to 80% battery in 30 minutes or less. This is a laptop where it's actually worth hauling out the AC adapter when you have 10 minutes before you board your next flight. Very awesome feature.
>It's a nice resolution that doesn't require switching into and out of "retina" mode.
I use an OS that fortunately isn't encumbered with those problems. I use a 2560x1440 monitor, a 2560x1440 tablet, and a 720p phone, the fact that a 14" screen is inferior to all of those is embarrassing. It does make a difference, especially when I'm considering switching from my MBA (which already has a higher density than the X1 in question) to an XPS 13 that has a full HD (1080p) display.
I can assure you, I would love more than anything else to buy the Touchpad X1. I don't like Dell's quality or customer service. The EFI implementation on Macs is piss-poor and their firmware doesn't support USB3 (you have to boot OS X/Ubuntu and have the drivers kick in). My first "real" laptop was a Thinkpad before they stopped making Thinkpads. But frankly, the screen is a deal break. The screen on my T61P was the worst screen I've ever owned, and I'm not buying another until it's competitive with the equivalent competition.
I'm sadly well aware that many other laptop manufacturers skimp on displays, but both Acer and ASUS offer full HD laptops that are in the same spec/dimension/price range.
I completely agree with your sentiment. My impression is they're releasing more models, redesigned like this, in the near future; we can only hope they'll have a high-res option.
I really don't mind paying $200 extra for a great screen.
> 2560x1440 tablet
If that's the nexus 10 you're referring to, it's actually 2560×1600 :)
> Its screen resolution is 1600x900, which is not only higher than the typical 1366x768 resolution found on most laptops, but it's a nice resolution...
I'm a bit surprised to read this sentiment on this thread. As I keep saying - ten years ago I had a t42p with 1600 x 1200. For software development, vertical resolution is extremely important, and 900 is the bare minimum in my opinion. It's certainly not good.
I've been a loyal Thinkpad user for more than a decade. There are three things that have kept me buying new thinkpads: The keyboard, the trackpoint, and the high degree of serviceability.
I recently got a T-530 and was extremely disappointed with the changes made to the keyboard. The chiclet change was lame, but it was something I could ignore. The changes to the layout are a complete disaster. Important keys are gone, and other keys are poorly positioned.
I joked that the next version thinkpad will eliminate the trackpoint and be as non-servicable as a Macbook.
Well, it looks like I underestimated them. They didn't eliminate the trackpoint. They just took the buttons away...
We unified the clickpad by integrating the trackpoint buttons into the elegant glass touchpad, making it appear even larger and more streamline. The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver.
Hardcore long-time ThinkPad fan. This breaks the way the computer is used.
I don't even know what I'll do. The only other quality hardware maker I know is Apple.
Lenovo, or any other manufacturer, will not keep producing gadgets for your exact same specification for the rest of your professional life. Actually, what they come up with in the first place was not designed by your specs, you got used to the gadget in time. Now it seems it's time to start using another one, getting familiar with it, and having some uncomfortable one or two weeks.
I don't feel it really applies here. Thinkpad are (were ?) tanks. Robustness people were willing to pay a premium. Now it feels like they just want the premium without the "too" expensive counterpart.
There's still DELL. I was a long-ish time ThinkPad fan and when I switched to DELL I liked it even more. Serviceability was the same, keyboard was surprisingly better, trackpoint with buttons was there as well. It's over a three years old model though, don't know where they moved since.
Dell's painted plastic finish was also a big turnoff to me. The paint comes off and scratches much easier than the Lenovo black plastic and rubberized case.
They have a "business" lines of products for notebooks, desktops, servers, .. they even have top of the line monitors. In the case of laptops, look for "Latitude" which is basically equivalent to Lenovo's ThinkPad.
I have E6400 and it has all the nice perks - metal-ish body so it's not squeeky and wiggly like a plastic notebook, one screw to remove bottom (to clean up fan, change ram, ...), one screw to change hard drive, "multi/ultra"bay slot so you can swap the useless optical drive for battery or hard drive, only few screws to change keyboard (so you can get an underlit one), docking station, international next business day care (with accidental damage) ... They just don't look so good as ThinkPad did/does. But that's a matter of opinion of course.
I haven't seen any of their books recently but if I were to buy something new I would definitely look into them.
I've had the T20, the T30, the T41, the T60p, and the X200. The build quality has just been going down. I have a T60 with a busted fan with no screen, think anti-tablet, as a server right now. The X200 had to be sent in for repairs a few times, luckily under warranty, while the T41 keeps going (others have been retired). And before the service was incredible, now it just seems to take longer and longer (well, as of 2 years ago as far as I know).
In 2011, I was shopping for a new laptop and wanted to get something with an SSD, but the X-series was more expensive than an MBA. After a tirade about Apple, I finally gave in despite reservations about no trackpoint and durability. I just don't treat my hardware very well. Regarding durability, I've had this thing protect me while I got clipped by a truck, dropped it off a motorcycle, and had it fall several times. A few dents, but it keeps on going. And the trackpoint, well, I've just learned to live without. C'est la vie. The keyboard works, gotten used to it.
I'm still waiting for something better than the MBA that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Carbon for $1200 + the honor of having to recompile kernels to get less battery life than other OS's just doesn't cut it anymore. This new one ain't it either.
Loyalty is misguided nowadays. They don't build them like they used to.
I am also worried about the buttons being part of the trackpad surface. For two reasons: (1) no haptic response when hitting the keys. I think I need to try it before making any judgement. (2) Will it still be possible to switch off the trackpads? I always switch off the trackpads on my thinkpad and use only the trackpoint, like this my palm will does not accidentally interfere with the mouse.
One of the things those long time ThinkPad users love about their machines is the TrackPoint [1]. There's no TrackPoint in a Mac, so I think the steadfast ThinkPad fans are among the last people you'd find switching to Macs.
There is a decent ThinkPad USB keyboard [2] that works with Macs; I use one with mine. The TrackPoint response isn't as good as it is on a ThinkPad with Windows, though. And there's no way to get a MacBook of any sort with a TrackPoint. So I prefer using my ThinkPads except when I need to test on the Mac.
For what it's worth, I use one of those ThinkPad external keyboards with my Mac. It's a great solution for those of us who can't work without TrackPoints.
I have two nearly new Thinkpads right now and I don't need a 3rd laptop. But with this shit hitting the market soon, I am contemplating ordering a T530 and perhaps an x230 in top configurations and keep them in a closet for future use.
After this pinnacle of Lenovo engineering goes on sale there won't be a single laptop on the market worth using.
Not sure what I think of Apple right now. On one hand, they catapulted the laptop designers around the world into producing this crap. On the other hand, by creating the iPad they've started the process of moving consumers off laptops into dedicated facebook terminals AKA tablets, so perhaps the high-res IPS screens with quality keyboards+trackpads will soon be offered again for a premium price.
I am rooting for Dell here. Now when Lenovo is gone, their Precision series is probably the closest one to take advantage of this.
Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers?
Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers?
I actually thought about this. A nice, rugged computer with a good keyboard, sturdy construction, great pointing stick hardware and 16:10 display.
All of which ThinkPad just isn't right now.
Unfortunately, my financial options and also my experience is very limited in this regard. If anyone proposes a project like this on Kickstarter, I'll be the first to throw money at it.
Unfortunately, the "great pointing stick hardware" will likely run into some IBM patents. None of the other machines with pointing sticks have ever been able to get the same natural response as a TrackPoint, I believe partly because of these patents.
What a deal: Lenovo doesn't want to make professional machines any more, but they won't likely let anyone else use the TrackPoint patents.
Have you looked into System76's machines at all? Right now I am using their Gazelle Professional model (https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/gazp8). I have to say it is the best damn laptop I've ever owned and this is coming from a long-time Thinkpad user
I look at them every time I'm shopping for a laptop. They never offer anything comparable to a proper Thinkpad. The laptop you're linking to lacks nearly everything imporant:
* No trackpoint
* Touchpad buttons are in the wrong place (must be on top, under thumbs)
* No IPS display
* Keyboard is crippled. Compare to a proper keyboard [1]
The #1 and #2 basicaly mean "this laptop has no mouse" Apple-style touchpad is useless for people who type a lot (you can't use them while your hands are in FJ-position).
#3 means "cannot work with images with more than 65K colors".
* Giant "Esc" key
* Dedicated forward/backward buttons for browsing
* Full-sized Fn keys
* Dedicated blocks for navigation keys
* Because it's ergonomic, it's not a dumb rectangular shape. Lenovo hates
this IBM design because it is more expensive to produce.
Also, look at how UltraNav works: you can use the mouse by keeping your hands in a typing position (FJ). This way you can nearly instantaneously replace the previously typed word by using the trackpoint + buttons under your thumbs. This speeds up your typing or coding significantly. This gives Vim/Emacs users superpowers! :) Cheap laptops force you to move your hands a lot to switch between the mouse and keyboard.
I always hated the forward-backward buttons. In Eclipse and VS, I kept hitting them when reaching for Shift or Cursor, and ended up in a different file.
> I am rooting for Dell here. Now when Lenovo is gone, their Precision series is probably the closest one to take advantage of this.
I would hope for the same, the only problem is that there has been some worrying tendencies in the Dell camp as well.
Look at the old Latitude series which was geared towards business [1]. It was solid, good keyboard, not a bundle of plastic etc. The design was new back in 2008 and now look what they turned it into [2]. It looks like a horrible mix between their all too plastic XPS series and the old Latitude. Also, doesn't it also look fat with those stupid rounded edges?
Honestly, the best laptop I know of out there is the Dell Latitude 2XXX series [3]. That although ridden with plastic, a not so good keyboard and a slow CPU, it is built like a brick (like IBM/Lenovo used to make them). I am quite confident I could render someone unconscious with it and still be able to continue working using it afterwards.
I need to upgrade my old Latitude within this year and I am desperate to find a good candidate, having considered the T420 I now dread the T421. Suggestions are most welcome.
What about the Dell latitude 6430u[1]? I've not seen it yet but if someone have any comments on it I'd be happy to hear! Seems like it's at least possible to get it with 1600x900.
1600 x 900, one of the most irritating resolutions ever. Ten years ago, my T42p had 1600 x 1200. It's as if they removed a quarter of my screen and recentered it. What progress!
I completely agree. Why does it seem nearly impossible to put in a high resolution screen? When you config the Precision line, it costs $34 to upgrade from 1366x768 to a 1920x1080 screen. That's basically nothing, so it doesn't seem too expensive to achieve higher resolutions? It's also strange to me that the 16:9 ratio is so dominant when it is clear that there is a market for other ratios as well.
> I am contemplating ordering a T530 and perhaps an x230 in top configurations and keep them in a closet for future use.
Welcome to my world. I exclusively use Thinkpad T40s, T41s, and T42s, the last few models to be manufactured by IBM prior to the 2005 selloff. (The T43 was the very last, but had more hardware issues for some reason.)
Even today it's not difficult to find used models in decent condition. They last me a few years until I utterly destroy them, which is something of an inevitability given the amount and type of usage they see. When that happens, I buy another for $150 - $200, pop in the old hard drive, and I'm off.
Thinkpads are amazing.
Edit: While quality initially suffered in the IBM -> Lenovo handoff, I do think it recovered eventually. The x220 and x230s I've used at jobs seem just as solid.
Do you find the screen back light inverter and/or that little ribbon cable between the base and the display are a particular cause of trouble with your T42s?
Also, I'll add that Thinkpads are quite easy to repair yourself. Great instruction manuals, and markings on the case itself as to what screws to take out to access a certain part.
You can do a custom configuration and for not so much money you can get a powerful CPU, fast SSD drive, lots of ports etc., and most importantly an IPS screen. The finishing quality doesn't look bad either. Example:
Panasonic is a viable option too, with their AX, SX and NX series. With no trackpoint unfortunately, but they have a unique round trackpad with a number of useful additional functions. Real keyboard (no chicklets) and case you can jump on.
And there is at least one (German!) startup (kupaworld.de/en) making (in China, of course) laptops for people who make money using computers - their first product, Kupa X15, have no keyboard although. But in 10" and 1.7lb you can get: 16:10 1920x1200 IPS 10-point multitouch and active stylus, detachable battery, Ivy Bridge i7 with 8GB RAM, dock with keyboard, extra battery, Ethernet port, VGA port, SD card slot, and USB port, modular design, BT+3G, front and rear camera, 128GB SSD, two USB 3.0, HDMI, etc.
And with no marketing "features" and artificial limitations.
Basically that's the way it should be these days - Lenovo is just too big to target niche customers - people interested in productivity with their laptop are minority now. That wasn't so back in X31 days, but now it is - majority of people don't know nothing about trackpoint and don't want to know. I hope such small manufacturers (design + contract manufacturing China) targeting a niche customers will arise in next couple of years.
> Does anyone want to apply to YC with a novel idea: make computers for people who make money using computers?
I'm not saying it can't be done, but we're probably the worst customers. On the one side you've got people who's machines are supplied by IT and can't be too extravagant, on the other you've got people buying for themselves and wanting to spend as little as possible.
HP EliteBooks also have track points with buttons... albeit four of them. And they dont have a middle click button, which is disappointing for me. But yeah, My Thinkpad is dying on me, and I am thinking of getting an X230 sooner rather than later now, too.
" The trackpad now has five buttons which you can customize for Windows 8 gestures via the device driver. There are subtle red lines on the surface indicating the trackpoint buttons. "
I'm going to keep calm and assume that these trackpad buttons work perfectly while using the trackpoint.
At least they didn't change the key laout again. I just got used to the new layout. It takes more effort to use though. There's a horrible wrist-crank that goes on while trying to page down with a pinky.
Anyway, I'm hoping my next computer will be little more than a keyboard (thinkpad travelnav) with something like a raspberry pi at the bottom and hdmi display glasses.
This is the absolute worst 'feature' on a thinkpad. When browsing those buttons are forward/back. Other that I'm not sure why they can't get a decent trackpad. Even though synaptics makes both the thinkpad and macbook trackpads, the mac is far better. It must come down to software/drivers.
I'm an MBP fella but for the past few years Thinkpads have been the PCs for which I've secretly lusted. Lenovo, becoming more Mac-ish only makes long for you less.
Wouldn't a better monitor be a better thing than flipping the logo?
I think the high point of the Thinkpad line was around the T61/X61t. They were fast, durable and had nice high resolution display.
I was desperately waiting for an update to my X61t w/ 1400x1050 display and no such option come from them and after many years, still none! Such a disappointment.
I saw the photos in the article and then noticed they removed the trackpad buttons. They're moving away from why I liked them before.. that's fine, but they're not making big enough hardware improvements to offset those changes.
The Thinkpad X1 Carbon is 1600x900. Surprised that is not that well-known, as you're the second person on this thread I've noticed with that misconception. I upgraded from my old X200s to the X1 Carbon and it's great.
I'm going to say "fine", as I've honestly never noticed an issue at all. I still do video editing on my desktop as it's way faster. I don't play games, so I can't answer that one for you.
1600x900 is lower than 1920x1200 and even lower than 1680x1050, which older models had. It's also lower than 2880x1800 found in a competitor model. It is also a TN display, not an IPS one.
Lenovo needs to slowly remove the bizarre and seemingly random vendor/OS specific features of their machines, and simplify (if that's an option). For example, I know there is an Intel processor in the machine an Windows as a default install, so please don't put hard to remove stickers on my machine. I'm a big Lenovo fan, but they need to take a step back.
Side note, PM me if you want to buy a nearly never used maxed out X220.
Funny thing about the stickers: my current two ThinkPads (W520 and X220 Tablet) had three stickers each: one was Intel, I think the other was Microsoft, and the last one was Lenovo Enhanced Experience.
The Intel and Microsoft stickers came off easily and cleanly.
(Pro tip: Use the plastic toothpick from a Swiss Army Knife. The flat point is just right to get under the corner of a sticker and lift it loose. Then the rest of the sticker is easy to peel off.)
The Lenovo Enhanced Experience sticker? Quite a bit more tenacious. It was a real pain to get it loose at all, and then it left a bunch of residue behind. Some kind of Enhanced Experience!
I really hope they will sell this with no OS. My current computer is a two-year old X201, the only brand that sold laptops without windows, it was more powerful and even cheaper model... I love it, and works beautifully with ArchLinux.
Had to service twice (the monitor cable broke once because of the lots of opening and closing, and the fan died once), and maybe will have to fix my headphone jack, but it was always painless, free and speedy in the service centre....
> we want to retain the right amount of ThinkPad-ness that satisfies our loyal customers who’ve always valued it while modernizing ThinkPad under the influences of consumerization’s focus on simplicity, interoperability and connectedness
Why not just use/create another brand like the IdeaPad?
I really like ThinkPads, but I think if they count rotating the logo to face up while open as a new feature, they should also include the feature of memorable model names. T431s? That's a SKU, not a model. Lenovo is experimenting with it's consumer-grade IdeaPad line—there's a Yoga, for instance—but it can still feel like a business machine with a memorable name.
That ugly trackpoint (that red dot in the middle of keyboard) and that extremely irritating swapped position of Fn and Ctrl keys are the two things that keep me away from this otherwise excellent laptop. (Though the Fn and Ctrl keys can now be swapped from BIOS, but why? )
Ugly trackpoint? Are you trolling? Trackpoint is one of the most significant reasons people buy a thinkpad over any other trackpad only laptop.
I've heard the ctrl and fn placement is an issue for many people, but I don't understand why you'd want the more frequently used key further away than a hardly ever used key. Or maybe people actually use fn more often than ctrl? That doesn't seem likely.
Don't think further away. Think corners. Corners are easy to hit, you know where they are. Second from the corner requires more effort. Same reasoning as "hot corners" in operating systems.
I was just talking about myself and a few others. In my company people are all given a Thinkpad (no choice), and howsoever I try I can't get that to work easily - and it's definitely much slower for me than the trackpad (and it looks bad to me anyway). I know that many people find that very useful and with time people get greatly used to that trackpoint, but definitely not beginners.
Ctrl key has always been the last key at the bottom row, so it's really easy to press, not sure why they would change that standard. Previously they didn't even have a BIOS setting, but they faced such a strong backlash that they had to add that. They did a survey and found out that a lot of people want that to match the industry convention.
Not a big fan of the changes here either.
However, I must note that this:
"At the same time we added a living element to it with a new LED in the logo middle giving it a “heartbeat” of sorts. It’s functional too, showing the PC’s status of on or in sleep."
This feature has always let me distinguish my high-end T420 from other cheaper, worse models which have the ugly red led.
With T420 I somewhat feel like this is the last good Thinkpad of the T-series, but of course I am biased.
They should've never ditched the blue enter key. Any machine with the 3-color IBM logo and a blue enter key is gonna be the hottest machine on the block.
I used to buy ThinkPads all the time. But they just keep getting worse (along with all other Windows laptops).
As for the new Thinkpad described in this article... lack of physical mouse buttons = instant fail. This seems like a weird style-oriented consumer move, not a business-user kind of move. I don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry to try and copy the MacBook (badly).
At this point, availability of physical mouse buttons is very high in my list of selling points for a laptop. I doubt I am alone.
I'm a macbook user and absolutely hate my thinkpad. However, I realize the people who love the thinkpad are all about function over form. Making the thinkpad more mac like (or consumer like or whatever) is just going to alienate the people already buying these.
Yet again, they're pushing out 16:9 screens in a case obviously designed to take a 16:10 display. It look ridiculous.
These are premium machines, they can clearly afford to get decent IPS displays produced in whatever aspect ratio they choose (as both Apple and Google have done), but they continue with this 16:9 bullshit.
I'm not fond of any current laptop hardware as they're all too compromised.
I second the sentiment that in a year or two it'll be possible to have a simple keyboard attached to an ARM based mini computer (raspberry pi but better), outputting to some wearable display / hooked to a monitor. This might in fact just be a phone of course.
I'd love to be able to just carry a nice mini mechanical keyboard with me, rather than use laptop keyboards.
I used to have a Thinkpad T61. Best laptop I ever had. When it came time to upgrade, I looked in disbelief at the current Thinkpad line, and felt the same emptyness in my heart as when my old HP 42S calculator died and I went to HP's site to find what their RPN calculator line was up to these days. How sad it is when a line of beautiful, well-engineered machines become extinct, supplanted by mediocre, cheaper tools.
Using the same ThinkPad w500 for 4+ years, running 1920 x 1200 resolution.
I'm utterly fed up with the consumerization of power notebooks at the expense of the needs of productivity workers.
The last few years have been an outright de-evolution of screen resolutions for laptops ... i'm still waiting for a clear upgrade path.
I'm a technology marketing specialist. I design graphics and develop software and websites using Adobe Creative Suite, Visual Studio, and various other apps that require lots of screen real estate. It seems like computer companies think everyone buys notebooks to watch movies.
There are a millions of power users that require high resolution notebooks including engineers, CAD/CAM designers, architects, graphic designers, developers, etc. These groups form the best litmus test for determining quality wrt high-end technology.
And these groups are being alienated by technology companies -- both software and hardware. This includes the latest Windows 8 craptaculous dr. jekyll mr. hyde release, along with the numerous laptop vendors all trying to shove consumer-focused technology down the throats of power users that primarily use technology to PRODUCE THINGS.
The most insulting and infuriating thing is that the ThinkPad brand in particular grew famous from the loyalty of power-users like me. And instead of listening to us and delivering products that meet and exceed our needs, Lenovo (and other manufacturers) blindly chase after new consumer oriented customers at our expense.
The marketing morons at these companies (i know their "work" very well) are focused on generating growth and chasing after new markets -- at all costs. That's fine. Create a new brand to do that.
My advise to manufacturers of high-end products for long-term success:
- Create new brands to enter new markets
- Deliver high-end products that meet/exceed the needs of your most demanding customers
- Evolve core brands CAREFULLY
- If you don't use the product as your demanding customers do, then you don't understand the product, so you should not make drastic decisions that affect it
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