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We Got Accepted into Techstars and Turned Them Down (talkroute.com) similar stories update story
320.0 points by paulhoweyjr | karma 263 | avg karma 263.0 2014-10-02 22:13:07+00:00 | hide | past | favorite | 164 comments



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This is a surprisingly good post. The title made me think it was going to be yet another startup flounder crowing, but it's actually a pretty thoughtful critique of the whole Techstars Chicago program.

The "100+k for 7-11% equity" analysis is particularly damning.

I think they're taking the "Techstars accepts 1% of applications" thing much too seriously. Presumably, only a tiny fraction of the inquiries they get are from serious teams.

Also: I've been to 1871 a couple times, and I got exactly the same vibe these people got. I know some people with solid companies working out of there, but the space is practically the archetype of the "startup playing house" idea Paul Graham likes to write about. It's particularly sad because it's located in Chicago, where it's easy to get an inexpensive office lease.

Later: the equity math is apparently not as damning as it sounds, or, perhaps, not damning at all.


Didn't YC also invest their small amount for 7% equity and then throw a convertible note on top of it? Has this changed with the new deal?

Yes - this has changed. See http://blog.ycombinator.com/the-new-deal

I was initially put off by the "Well, in 8 years, why haven't they had a big (>100M) exit?" in the beginning; I figured it was more of the kind of silly entitled bubble talk I've been seeing elsewhere.

The equity analysis you pointed out as well as the description of the LoI stuff made me reconsider that position, and by the end of the article I was glad I read it. It wasn't quite the muckraking I was expecting, and instead was a decent exploration of when a fit with an accelerator just didn't exit.

Matasano never did the incubator/accelerator thing, right?


Nope, we didn't take a dime of funding (but our business isn't compatible with funding).

The exit analysis is the first thing I think of when I think of Techstars, too. Ostensibly, the reason to sign on with an "incubator" is that the connection you get would enable you to obtain rapid growth. But I can't think of good examples of companies where that's happened.


As for the 8 years and no exits, it should be noted that the average time to a successful acquisition is 7 years, 8.25 for IPO. Reference: http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/14/crunchbase-reveals-the-aver.... There are a few TechStars companies that are doing really well and should exit for >100M. SendGrid comes to mind.

Also, I think the section regarding TechStars success makes an assumption mistake:

"The national rate of failure for startups is 75-90%. So lets say it was a good year and Techstars Chicago received a 1000 applicants/startups to choose from. You know based on national averages that 750-900 of these companies will fail. That leaves 100-250 that will succeed. Techstars is only taking 1% of applicants, which is 10 startups. Unless Techstars is picking poorly, they are selecting companies that are positioned for success from day one. These startups would most likely succeed with or without Techstars."

The common assumption that 75%-90% of startups fail is usually regarding venture backed startups, not people who fill out the TechStars applications. I would wager that the if you looked at the failure rate of anyone who had an idea they wanted run through an accelerator, the failure rate would be much, much higher. What you should benchmark TechStars against VC performance.

(Disclaimer: I went through TechStars.)


What are some break-out companies that have gone through Techstars Chicago? It doesn't take 7 years to see who's doing well, right?

Techstars in Chicago is actually less than 2 years old. Excelerate labs was 2 years old at the time it joined Techstars, so the oldest company connected to that city is less than 4.

Also important to control for cohort size. These are 10 company classes. A 100 million+ breakout seems to be somewhere between a 1 in 100 and a 1 in 50 occurrence.


Ok, point taken, but is the answer that there aren't any break-out successes from TS Chicago yet?

Given that I work with our cloud program and in Austin I'm not as intimate with the alumni from Chicago, but one that I am personally fond of is http://www.giveforward.com/

They've crowd-funded over 125 million dollars toward medical expenses for people in need.


I think it's safe to say that's the answer - SpotHero is doing quite well and just raised a $4.5M series A, GiveForward as mentioned has crowdfunded a good amount of money for people's medical bills, and FeeFighters sold to groupon relatively early on. None of these are "breakout successes" to the tune of a 100M valuation, however.

I'm a Chicagoan and and as jaredmck mentioned, there aren't any breakout successes. However, there are a number of companies are gaining steam like FoodGenius, Simple Relevance, and TempoIQ. Here's a link to the legacy Excellerate Portfolio: http://exceleratelabs.com/portfolio/


Chicago startup scene has not generated a ton of hits, but there have been a few notable successes. But there are also a lot of solid companies that will probably make money for investors. You have to realize that there are very few Facebooks, AirBnBs and Ubers in total and most of them are by definition in SV. So you would expect relatively few out of Chicago at this point

What are those solid companies? SpotHero?

Specifically on the exit stats GrabCAD (Boston TS company from 2012) was acquired for 100 million -

http://betaboston.com/news/2014/09/16/product-design-startup...

And the real answer to this is that getting large exits takes a long time. Unless I'm mistaken YC, which is older than Techstars and has 50% more portfolio companies, has 3 exits over 100 million, OMGPOP, Heroku and Twitch. Granted the last one was a big one.


YC also has 4 companies with public valuations over 1 billion: Machine Zone, Stripe, Airbnb and Dropbox

Techstars should see some other big exits over time with SendGrid (couldn't find actual current valuation) and DigitalOcean ($153M Valuation in 3 years) to name a few

Also Localytics (TS Boston 2009) is well positioned for a big exit or IPO: http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/localytics

(Disclosure: Hackstar in 2009, Founder in 2010)


I worked out of 1871 and was seriously helpful in connecting with some good people. That said - there's a ton of open environment space where it's easy to get distracted and pulled into conversations if you don't have noise canceling headphones and your "don't bother me face" on.

That said - I think Excellerate Labs (before Techstars bought them) had a serious hand in getting several startups off the ground. The tech scene in Chicago specifically is newer (so companies are younger) which means less exits, but I think if you watch the Chicago scene for a bit - that's going to change very soon.

That said - good analysis here. Good to see a founder not just jumping at the opportunity for funding "just because it could."


Sure. I hope you don't hear me suggesting that anyone who works out of 1871 must be playing house.

Let me give it a try with the math.

TS initially gets 6% (for $18k, but that's irrelevant). The founders also take the $100k convertible notes at $3M cap and 20% discount.

Say the company closes a round of $1M at $3M pre = $4M post, i.e. the investors get 25%.

For me, it's always easier to think about shares. Say the initial pool is 1,000,000 shares, split in 940,000 to the founders, and 60,000 to TS. Pre-money, 1 share costs $3, and the investors get 333,333 shares, that are added to the pool.

TS has 20% discount, that makes the price $2.40. With $100k, TS can buy 41667 shares, that are also added to the pool. Overall, there are now the following shares: 940,000 to the founders, 101,667 to TS, 333,333 to the investors, so they respectively own 68.36%, 7.39%, 24.24%.

(Note: this may be a simplification, meaning that the investors can possibly work on pre-post to have exactly 25%, which means both the founders and TS will have a little bit less.)

Skipping the details, let me add a few more examples.

- Round of $1M at $4M pre = $5M post, i.e. the investors get 20% => founders 73.25%, TS 7.27%, investors 19.48%.

- Round of $500k at $1.5M pre = $2M post, i.e. the investors get 25% => founders 66.35%, TS 10.12%, investors 23.53%.

In conclusion, $100k for 7-11% equity seems pretty reasonable.

Edit: fixed formatting


Edit 2: I didn't take into account interests on convertible notes. (If the company raises after 1y and interests are 10%/y, then TS can actually buy shares for $110k, thus 45833 shares.)

I think this was a terrible post, it was inaccurate on several points, and the ones it was not were largely things that are 'table stakes'. Complaining about being on the VC track coming out of an accelerator, or having a convertible note is like complaining about graduating college with student loan debt. They then proceeded to extrapolate what going through the program wouldn't do for them, without any experience going through the program. I've been through it, it was fantastic, they are confused or wrong about most of their points.

I completely respect that you are in the bootstrap your business camp, and that 1871 isn't your scene. But this post has confirmation bias written all over it. TS Chicago has been a boon to many of the companies that went through it, and that is the only measure of success anyone should care about.


You're the face in my brain when I write things like "I hope nobody sees me saying everyone who works at 1871 is playing house". I know you aren't.

Frankly: I am skeptical of all but the first tier of startup accelerators, and I am especially skeptical of startup accelerators based in Chicago, a locale not conducive to funding. One argument the post made that I'm confident is correct is that the accelerator model, when it ever makes sense, does so only when the company is on a trajectory towards raising funds.

I also find the idea that Excelerate charges more than YC to be jarring. It shouldn't be controversial to say that YC is the more impactful of the two programs.


I won't get in to fundraising in Chicago in a public forum, but you aren't hearing me argue. That said, fundraising typically only requires a warm intro. Techstars alums can get to pretty much anyone in the country. Our fundraising was not held back by access, it simply required purchasing plane tickets. I should shut up though, our Series A lead ended up being a new firm in Chicago, and they are great.

Again, if you aren't planning on fundraising, don't go through an accelerator. They are seed stage investment vehicles. Once you take investor money the clock starts ticking on an exit. Perhaps that should be in bold print somewhere, but we all read HN, this should be fundamentally understood by everyone.

I would counter argue that Excelerate/TS isn't expensive, given the stage that they come in they are severely diluted by the time you raise an A, and they have a business to run. I think you could make an argument that YC is by comparison cheap, not a bad thing considering their track record.


You should let me buy you coffee sometime to make up for being dismissive of TS. :)

This is more or less a guaranteed way to never get accepted into a program like this ever again however. I don't see any serious upside to a company who might want to do this.

After hearing this story, I would be more likely to invest in this startup. The LOI pressure over the weekend was unacceptable. The fact that the founders held firm and did not fall for it is an indicator of future success for them. This was responsible, wise, business behavior. If the startup continues to operate like this, their chances for success are high, market allowing.

How to get investor attention: 1. Write about a controversial topic relevant to Hacker News 2. Show off traction 3. Say you are not looking for $$$ (Bonus: get more customers)

Lol, you are probably right. I bet these get money thrown at them from investors that don't respect accelerators (there are lots of them). They have over 40k users (probably more now) and charge 20$ per month. Close to 1m a month in revenue. They don't need investment or an accelerator at this point.

I think it was a brilliant self marketing tactic. And then they have the balls to post it here, lol... Love it. I think we are all witnessing a genius marketing stunt that is going to be the topic of discussion in the future.


If you're making your numbers, people will invest. If you're not, it often doesn't matter if they invest or not.

I upvoted your comment because I disagree and want more people to understand this position of fear and caution is exactly what leads to horrible decisions.

What's more, taking the opposite stand is good for the little guy. In the first part of his book "Soul" Aristotle devotes the first book to refuting previous famous writers on the subject. Rousseau did the same in the first book (I believe) of Social Contract. Socrates did the same in ... well ... everywhere.

For something more recent, Apple was anti PC, I am sure Linux was anti-Closed-OS, Snapchat is anti Facebook and all these made it public, which in turn did nothing short of helping them.


I also upvoted yours :)

I think that their choices were sound business. However, you don't voice things that make other "industry players" look bad. This is ultimately a pretty small world and people in our industry tend to move around.

It just takes one guy from that VC to leave for another investor they might want in the future to blackball them. That is what I was trying to say.


I think there might some VCs who would actually respect these guys an invest just because they made this story public.

It sounds like they don't really care about that. And good for them.

It looks like your convertible note math is off. Given the $1M minimum trigger, the $100K note will not equal 10% of the company unless we plug in absurd numbers ($100K premoney Series A with a note discount).

Based on this Quora answer, the cap is $3M with a 20% discount. http://www.quora.com/What-are-Techstars-convertible-notes-te...

Say you raise $1M on a $3.9M pre-money. The $1M investors wind up with almost 20% (a little less because the note investors pay the $3M price), the note investors about 2.6% (they get $130K worth of Series A plus interest), and the remaining ~77.4% is your former cap table, including TechStars, diluted by the $1M and note conversion.


Is the point here that Techstars "7-11% equity" claim is accurate given the range of possible valuations for their convertible note? Or is it just that it's not as inaccurate as the post claims?

The quora post is correct (note is a 100k convertible 3 mil - 5 mil cap, 20% discount). It appears that the OP misunderstood the terms.

Don't know enough about Techstars to comment, but the location (1871) is a problem. It's incredibly noisy and crowded. I personally can't get anything done there, so it's quick meetings and I'm out, working at home in peace. One upside however is that there is a good food court at the merchandise mart and I love those habanero burritos.

Lots of co-working spaces are popping up all over Chicago, if you're in the market for space... pick a quiet one.


The central area is - but the TechStars companies do get semi-private work spaces (which is much better than the loud open-space most people see.

If you've got 2 people in your team, I don't think the math on spaces like 1871 works out; it's cheaper just to get an office. If you're just one person, you probably don't need any space at all.

We're shopping for offices right now for the new company, and Chicago offices are cheap.


new company?

Yes?

Details? (You're well aware of this, but lots of hn people are prolly interested in working for you...?)

We haven't announced the company yet, but I'm hoping it won't be a surprise to anyone who reads my comments on HN.

my guess would be a difficult to fuckup encryption substrate for application programmers, but I don't see how you would ever make money...

I can't speak to Chicago because I don't know the market but in general you'll get a lot more out of working in a space with other startups and freelancers than you will working alone in a cave, er, your own office. Networking alone is worth it. Once you grow to a large enough size that getting your own office offsets the lost opportunity cost of networking sure, get one.

I can speak to a career in startups when I say, respectfully, that I think this is horseshit. Compare outcomes. The most successful companies do not predominantly emerge from coworking spaces.

It seems like using "most successful" companies as a rubrik for decision making doesn't make a lot of sense, given how unlikely it is that any company will make it to the "most successful" categorization.

There are some tangible benefits from working out of a coworking space (I'm not sure you are advocating an opinion one way or the other regarding them):

- easier access to networking events. Certainly you can make the trek from your office over to where the event is, but there is an extra level of convenience.

- Access to other people. I was the only technical founder on our team, and just being able to talk shop with other engineers had real value. For the business guys, they were able to talk with other business guys and swap ideas and information.

- Manufactured Serendipity. This one is a bit of a stretch, but if you are around other startups, there is a small chance that something lucky can happen. Is it going to move the needle? Dunno, certainly more likely to happen than if you were alone in a garage.

None of these things should take away from what I think is the important aspect of an office: allowing people to work productively. If that part isn't there, then no amount of perks and benefits will matter.


There are tangible costs to working in a coworking space:

* It's significantly more expensive.

* It's distracting.

* It creates an endless font of excuses to "network" and "talk shop" instead of powering through the schleps.

* It colocates serious companies alongside fundamentally unserious ones, leaving the serious ones to filter requests, drama, networking, &c.

For me, cost is dispositive. Put burning cash up against abstract benefits like "serendipity" and "talking shop" and I don't have a hard time making that decision. Last company, we wanted to talk shop too. We started a meetup. It worked fantastic. Do that!

Erin and I are signing a lease on the office for NewCo today. The space is depressing. We're in Oak Park to begin with, a 35 minute walk from my house, and you'd have to look to find an office with a window staring out onto a brick wall. We have two of those. It's perfect.

There's a time for spending some cash to make your work space pleasant. But not in the early days. Unfortunately, that's what coworking spaces optimize for.


> It's significantly more expensive.

When it's only the founders it isn't really more expensive especially when you factor in cleaning, food, coffee, etc. If you're growing beyond the founders then it probably makes financial sense to get your own office.

> It's distracting. > It creates an endless font of excuses to "network" and "talk shop" instead of powering through the schleps.

Only as much as you let it be. Put on headphones and get work done.

> It colocates serious companies alongside fundamentally unserious ones, leaving the serious ones to filter requests, drama, networking, &c.

To a certain degree but you're grasping at straws here. Don't want to talk to someone? Tell them you have work to do and don't talk to them. It's really not that hard.

Of course I can't speak for everyone. Some people simply can't adjust to working with other people around. Personally I prefer it, I find it inspiring.


No. It is significantly more expensive. I'm not saying this in the abstract. I just got a 2-person office for my new company, and I know what 1871 costs. 1871 is expensive. Office space in Chicago is not expensive. I'm actually paying slightly more to be walking distance from my house in Oak Park, and I'm still cheaper for 2 people than I would be at 1871. The difference would be even more stark if we had gotten an office in the Monadnock, where the company I'm leaving next week is. And the Monadnock is a historic landmark building with an Intelligentsia on the first floor.

The space that TechStars uses in 1871 is separated from the main area, in an enclosed office area. Doors can be shut and distraction is pretty effectively minimized. It works pretty well, from my experience.

Also, yeah... The food court is good! But that Duncan Donuts and Arby's certainly is my downfall... ha


Get yourself some headphones and learn how to focus. It takes a little getting used to but isn't hard and this is coming from someone with ADHD.

My understanding is that Techstars is a "franchise model" of sorts. So Techstars Chicago, as described in the post, could be quite different from another city's Techstars?

If anyone on HN have been through any Techstars programme and are prepared to comment on the experience that'll be super valuable.


Yes, that's accurate. Techstars Chicago is an incubator called Excelerate that joined the "network". I think they're all run similarly, but Excelerate didn't magically become a premium accelerator by slapping the Techstars label on.

Excellerate was close to #3 or #4 incubator (depending on how you count) in the country before joining the TechStars crew.

How do you count this? What's the rationale for saying that Excellerate was the next-best incubator after YC and 500s?

I don't know the methodology of the research but here is the coverage -

http://tech.co/top-startup-accelerators-ranked-2012-08


Forbes put together an analysis in 2012 (the last year Excelerate was still Excelerate) based on companies' exit price or price of most recent round. Excelerate came in No. 6.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomiogeron/2012/04/30/top-tech-i...


TS 2013 Seattle.

Easily one of the best things I've ever done. I'm not sure how to compare it to other Cities, but it was certainly a benefit to our company.

Edit to add:

The 3 month program was broken up roughly into three chunks:

1. Achieving Product Market Fit 2. Product Development 3. Fund Raising

Depending on the stage of your company, you spent more or less time in each of these phases. We were relatively mature from a product market fit standpoint, so we focused our time between Product Development, Signing Customers, and Fund Raising.

Add the TechStars network, the "prestige" of being in TechStars, and what essentially amounts to a 3-month pass to ask for help from businesses, and it felt like it was a great experience.


TS 2014 NYC

We found the program immensely valuable. The network you get connected to is almost worth it alone. The actual 3 month program is what you make it really. You get connected to amazing mentors, are expected to meet weekly milestones, and are offered the chance to hear many talks from prominent investors/entrepreneurs. How you decide you and your team act on these opportunities is where the value can be relative and vary per team. Some teams don't like the structure, some do, and some just keep their head down for the 3 months and pay little attention to who comes in the Techstars office door.

This person's critique of the program seems a bit off to me. As other commenters stated, his math is off on the equity calculations (we just finished our first raise and certainly didn't give up anywhere close to 50% of the company). Getting upset because a couple of people couldn't provide a detailed, helpful answer very specific to your startup after hearing a 10 minute pitch about it is a bit too critical, in my opinion. And I wouldn't read much in the request to sign the paperwork by Monday. It was likely oversight, and personally, if I needed time, I'd have told them that instead of interpreting it as some sketchy sales tactic and getting upset.

That said, the program isn't for everyone, and it can of course be improved, so maybe they made the right decision in the end. I just don't think they had enough evidence (or at least interpreted that evidence fairly enough) to ever know at this point.


And another article styled by people who need to read and comprehend this: http://contrastrebellion.com/

DigitalOcean and Sendgrid (both techstars companies) probably have valuations exceeding 100m at this point.

Were either of those companies part of Techstars Chicago?

No, they both came up through the Boulder branch.

http://www.techstars.com/program/locations/boulder/#3


I think the point being made is that you can't 1:1 compare TechStars locations.

A true measure of comparison would be to see the performance of companies that participated in TechStars Chicago, and not just TechStars as a whole.


Sure you can.

Your access to the TS network is the same regardless of your location and that's the important part.


You're saying that if I join TS Chicago, I'll have access to the same "mentor meetings" as someone in TS Austin or TS Seattle would? That the same people will come speak to my Chicago cohort as would Austin? That TS will round up comparable groups of investors?

Accessing the network is just one aspect of being in TechStars.

The mentor selection, who attends demo day, who holds office hours, all differ by location.


Much higher than that.

You made the right decision based on incorrect thinking.

Your math about dilution is completely wrong. That's a major issue right there. Then your math about expected success rate (claiming that TechStars has a negative impact on startups) is also completely off.

You did come to the right conclusion because you do not want to raise VC funding. That's it. That program is not for you, since your goals differ. From the tone of your post, you have your own way of thinking, fairly black and white. You naturally detected that there was a disconnect between your way of operating and TechStars'. So you didn't take the offer and my guess is TechStars is happy you didn't join either.

Good luck to your startup though. You are free to run your company whichever way you want (that's one of the beauties of startups).


> Troy sent over a Letter of Intent and explained that it needed to be signed and returned by Monday. I was very frustrated by this. You don’t send a legal document to someone over the weekend when their is no time for a lawyer to review it and demand it back by that same Monday. Whether it was the intention or not, this was a high pressure sales technique and just one more red flag.

This says it all to me.


classic "exploding offer" douche baggery

Maybe, but the good ol razor tells me it could be a simpler case of either: self-absorption (blessed with our acceptance, they'll drool as they jump on signing it), or just formal carelessness - we need these docs back pronto so that's all we care about.

I honestly don't know which is more damning, your sympathetic interpretation--implying "self-absorption" and "formal carelessness"--or mine--implying scumbag cynicism. The reason for my vitriol is my own experience with this kind of "offer". From many people I've talked to this is a calculated technique, and in my opinion expresses a deep disrespect for the recipients. If you are thinking about signing a contract of any import, your lawyer needs to look at it. You can be sure theirs did.

There's nothing wrong with being cynical about potentially signing something to give away a percentage of your business.

In fact, if you're not cynical, you may not be ready for the business world.


You're talking about the 'skepticism of sincerity' sense of cynicism on the receiving agents' (OP) side. I'm talking about the 'disregard for accepted or appropriate standards' sense of cynicism on the offering agents' (TS) side.

Wow. We were offered a TS over the weekend. And we had to come up with a lawyer to review it on moments notice. On retrospect, this does says a lot.

We got an exploding offer once, and it really rubbed us the wrong way. That's duress :P

I was a founder of a company in the TS Chicago class this summer.

I can tell you that this letter of intent was one and a half pages long, contained a simple, bulleted list of documents required for due diligence, and explained the structure of the funding and program.

Additionally, there is a very clear line that indicates that they are willing to extend the deadline provided you give a reason.

Finally, this document is not the formal acceptance of anything related to the program.

I would suggest that "demand[ing] it back" using "high pressure sales techniques" is a strong overstatement.


Ok, sure, fine, it was not technically demanding for a half sober lawyer to go over. Still why not on a Monday then, why not a 2 week horizon? Why do I have to give a reason, why do I have to skip dinner with my wife on Saturday, a plan I have had all week? If it's not formal, then why send it at all? Why send a 4th grade Valentine's day card? Etc.

Basically, it sent a message, at least to these guys. I think they read it correctly.


The challenge in equating our two experiences is the perspective from which the LOI was received. For them, it was a message in the form of another low blow from this high pressure accelerator trying to wrest away 50% of their business. With that mindset, a week probably would have been too short. Who knows.

Ours, on the other hand was, "Awesome! Troy called and invited us to the program! We finally get to quit our day jobs and go after this business full time like we have always dreamed about, and TS is facilitating that! Let's go over this LOI, which is simple and straightforward and doesn't legally bind us to do anything other than say we understand we are continuing the process and wont tell anyone publicly about it and gets us one step closer to Chicago and the success of our business!"

Looking through an LOI and getting it back to them was a joy for us, not a burden.


Without specifically being in the situation, it's hard to tell. The author implied that when they had spoken on the phone, he indicated to Troy that he wasn't sure if he was ready to commit, and then received the "please return by Monday" email within moments. It seems yours was more of a "yes, we're interested" followed shortly by the email. Maybe it's just their standard practice to immediately follow up "the call" with "the email," but I can see how it could be perceived differently depending on the receiver.

> Let's go over this LOI, which is simple and straightforward and doesn't legally bind us to do anything other than...

How do you know that until you've had an attorney review it?


Not that I have any affiliation, though was curious. So I reached out to Troy on Twitter. He claims he extends more time if needed/requested, and they move quickly to close deals.

Is it possible, that maybe what transpired here, wasn't in fact a calculated tactic, designed to screw the applicant?


Extending the deadline is exactly what we would expect if it was a high pressure sales tactic without a legal purpose. Sending legal documents without giving the time for legal review is horrible. You should not be encouraging your startups to skip consulting lawyers.

Well, we both agree that high pressure tactics are not cool. Also encouraging startups to skip consulting with lawyers would be uncalled for. However on the second point, I can't see any mention of that. Do you have any evidence, or is this speculation?

In this specific case, I can see it going both ways.

So I guess where we perhaps differ, is that I would prefer to be certain of intent. Ideally, before reaching for the pitchforks to publicly shame someone.


I got a similar experience from a different accelerator (which we didn't go to for approximately the same reasons).

What I think happens is that the people sending this are not completely aware of how their role has shifted. They primary see themselves as "startup helpers" while the legal documents makes them look like an investment fund. I'd say they should pick one and stick with it - I don't mind either, but you can't pretend you're investing, and manage paperwork like a naive non profit...at least that tend to rub some people the wrong way.


Im an MD for Techstars in Austin and happy to answer specific questions on this for anyone about our programs and results.

I don't know the details of this specific company, so I won't comment on any of those particulars, but I can for sure comment on the structure of our terms.

As I mention in another reply on this thread, the OP appears to have misunderstood the note terms as presented. Currently the 100k note offered is a 3mil-5mil cap note, 20% discount. What causes it to be 5 vs 3 is whether or not the company has had a prior financing event. In other words the cap by default is 3, but it'll float up to 5 if a prior financing is above 3 for a particular company. Those terms are written in stone for all time, but as of this exact moment that's what they are and that's what the were at the time of this blog post.

One other thing I'll point out that wasn't covered in the post, likely due to the timing of the event, is our first >= 100 million exit, which happened in the last month.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2014/09/23/stratasy...


Is requiring the signing of an LOI over the weekend typical of TechStars?

Nope.

Sam Altman had a great post recently about YC's indictment of timing pressure tactics on accelerator offers. We completely agree with that position and try very hard to not give that impression. Clearly sometimes that pressure is still felt even if it's not intended.

One issue that is relevant to us given our fixed class sizes is getting a definitive answer from an offer as quickly as we can so that we know if should move down the list and give an offer to the next team instead. Having 10 offers out and finding out that only 8 want to accept would mean we are giving out 2 offers potentially much later than the others.

Purely as a practical timing matter we hope to have a set of offers out around the same time and have everyone accept or dismiss them pretty quickly so we know who the class will be.

There was good discussion of this on a prior HN thread when @sama posted that blog piece. If I can dig it up I'll add it here.

EDIT: found it -

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8285994


The following questions aren't meant to be antagonistic, but your PR has just taken a hit, and the specific claim made in this post about the LOI isn't a small one. Let's clear it up.

There was good discussion of this on a prior HN thread when @sama posted that blog piece. If I can dig it up I'll add it here.

Is Sam Altman involved with TechStars? If not, why is his name being evoked? It's great that you agree with him, but OP is saying that at least in his case, this point of view was not honored.

One issue that is relevant to us given our fixed class sizes is getting a definitive answer from a offer though as quickly as we can so that we know if should move down the list and give an offer to the next team instead. Having 10 offers out and finding out that only 8 want to accept would mean we have are giving out 2 offers potentially much later than the others. Purely as a practical timing matter we hope to give out a set of offers and have everyone accept or dismiss them pretty quickly so we know who the class will be.

I understand, but this is simply the universal rationale behind pressure tactics. Your desire for quick resolution is understandable, but the specific claim made in the post needs to be addressed.


No worries at all, I don't take it to be antagonistic in any way. I'm hoping to accurately represent how we operate and I'm inviting your questions, so ask away!

>> Is Sam Altman involved with TechStars? If not, why is his name being evoked? It's great that you agree with him, but OP is saying that at least in his case, this point of view was not honored.

Sam is the president of YC. I'm invoking his name because it was a great post on a common accelerator tactic that we do not employ. The comments in that thread are very relevant. I wasn't invoking Sam so much as I was pulling in the context of that prior discussion on HN.

>> I understand, but this is simply the universal rationale behind pressure tactics. Your desire for quick resolution is understandable, but the specific claim made in the post needs to be addressed.

Actually not the case. As covered in the thread I referenced the reason that this pressure tactic is typically employed is that an accelerator is trying to force a company to make a decision before the deadline of a program that they view as a competitor, in essence front-running the selection process of another organization.

The point I'm making is that while we don't want to use that tactic, we can't afford to give an open ended offer up until the first day of the program because we'd risk having an 8 company cohort. It's less of an issue for YC to take an additional (or lose an additional) half dozen companies between their selection process and day one of the program because a) they don't offer workspace to their companies and don't have to do with those logistics and b) the uncertainty of +/- a few companies doesn't matter as much in a 60+ company batch as it does in a 10-12 company batch.


The OP gets what you are saying:

In the meantime, Troy sent over a Letter of Intent and explained that it needed to be signed and returned by Monday. I was very frustrated by this. You don’t send a legal document to someone over the weekend when their is no time for a lawyer to review it and demand it back by that same Monday. Whether it was the intention or not, this was a high pressure sales technique and just one more red flag.

Which is well put- "whether it was the intention or not." So, why wasn't Talkroute simply rejected for taking too long? If Techstars was concerned about an undersized cohort, they could simply sign another startup with no ill will - Talkroute just missed the deadline. No harm no foul.

A Saturday -> Monday LOI signing isn't typically considered a reasonable expectation.


Right and I don't know the specifics of this situation so I really shouldn't conjecture.

Clearly the company didn't feel they had the option to take more time to decide. If that's the case that's on us and we can do better. I will absolutely assert though that if they needed the time they could have had it.


That's a good assertion to make. You did yourself a service.

>Purely as a practical timing matter we hope to have a set of offers out around the same time and have everyone accept or dismiss them pretty quickly so we know who the class will be.

How can you say this in the same post you say this?

>Sam Altman had a great post recently about YC's indictment of timing pressure tactics on accelerator offers. We completely agree with that position and try very hard to not give that impression.


Wanting to have a quick response is significantly different than using time pressure to influence the outcome.

We give companies time to decide if they need it, we just don't give them unlimited time.


There's a goalposts-moving thing happening here. The claim in the post isn't simply that there was a time-limited offer made. The claim was that a complicated legal document was presented just before a weekend, with a demand that it be accepted or rejected by the following Monday.

I have no idea if that actually happened or not, but this thread isn't really addressing the claim in the post.


Not evading here, just don't want to go into unnecessary detail, but here it is if you are interested -

Our LOI is not a complex document. It's one page long and covers 7 points.

1- agreeing to supply an official version of the cap table 2- representing that documents supplied to us are are accurate to the best of their knowledge 3- acknowledging that the team must relocate for the duration of the program 4- committing to fully participate in the program (show up and not have another job outside of their company) 5- agreeing to the dates of the program 6- agreeing to our equity exchange 7- confidentially clause regarding the offer

And a final clause states that while signing the LOI executes your agreement to our terms that "your acceptance of our offer is subject to your review and satisfaction with the formal contract provided". In other words signing the document is merely signaling your intent to participate in the program, but you aren't held to any specific clauses by signing.

This is not a document that is meant to be negotiated, there are really no terms here that we'd debate on, it's more of an outline of the deal so that you get it all in one place and have it in writing up front.


This is a great response. Thanks!

Still, why Friday? Why not Monday? Why not a week time horizon? Yes it may be industry standard, but you aren't looking for industry standard people here. Why send such a thing to begin with? If it's not legally binding, negotiable, or really anything other than a 4th grade valentine's day card, why do it? Yes, again, the authors may have misread the boilerplate, but those are the people you are looking for, the ones that aren't 'normal.' If you want to do business with people, then do it. This isn't love notes in lockers stuff.

Why not just publish it online, so that companies know beforehand what to expect?

> The national rate of failure for startups is 75-90%... This means for every [Techstars] company that is acquired, there is a company that fails. For a program that is picking the best startups, this is not that impressive.

A 1:1 ration is actually very good. The failure rate for pre-VC startups is actually much higher than 90%. 75% of VC-funded startups fail [1] but only a tiny minority of startups ever get to that stage. If Techstars really keeps up a 50% success rate that would be amazing (though I assume it will go down over time).

[1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000087239639044372020...


This^^^

YC has distinct advantage of being tapped into a very powerful network, in what is arguably the strongest startup market in the world.

TechStars are in #2 and below markets, each of which is easily dwarfed by Silicon Valley. So while TS (and other accelerators for that matter) don't have as much success as YC, I'd love to compare the stats of local companies that were in TS relative to the expected performance in their respective markets.


Really Really good post. Look forward to the next post.

I was part of the first Excelerate class with FeeFighters (acquired by Groupon in 2012) and was an EIR with TechStars Chicago a few summers ago.

I thought this post was well balanced and obviously everyone should make their own decisions based on their startup's particular situation...incubators, just like financing, are not a panacea that guarantee success.

Troy, Sam, Steve and all the folks involved in Techstars Chicago all do TS because they are extremely passionate about developing startups and building the types of outcomes YC has produced.

One of the stark realities of the Chicago startup ecosystem is the capital available to tech startups is really tiny compared to other places. As a startup founder, I've both raised money and failed at raising money...one of the biggest challenges of being a founder here are the sheer financing odds you have to beat which are necessary to even have a chance to achieve YC outcomes.

That's why 1871 looks the way it does- it's meant to attract entrepreneurs but it's also meant to attract money. It's a symbol of the growing tech community in Chicago and a way for potential investors who have not invested in tech previously to see tangible proof of a burgeoning ecosystem. That's the truth...while office space is cheaper in Chicago, 1871 provides the connections and "accelerated serendipity" early stage founders might need. Again- I worked out of there for a year and left because it was too distracting...it was the right place for the right phase of business.

When it comes to Troy, he is just about the most founder friendly person I know. I'm sure if the founder had spoken to Troy about his discomfort with the exploding LOI, I can't speak for Troy, but it's hard to imagine him not understanding.

I look forward to seeing the big outcomes- GiveForward, SpotHero, SimpleRelevance, SocialCrunch, etc. in the future.


There is one thing that I've learned as I've been in Silicon Valley and tried to work with partners. Everything is a two way relationship and a two way street. If you're smart and you know what you're doing, you can't say "yes" to every opportunity because then you'll most likely miss the right opportunity. This is a great example of a team doing their due diligence and realizing that they weren't ready to get into a long term relationship with a parter that wouldn't be able to help them. Even though the OP didn't make it in, I still think the experience was a success because of the learning. Thanks for sharing this with the rest of us as well.

What's crazy is that you think using light gray as a text color is a good idea.

In Safari, "Show Reader" corrects all styling sins.

What's crazy is that you think using light gray as a text color is a good idea.

Okay, after reading the OP, explain something to me, because so far I just don't get it!

That is, from all I can see, the situation in the OP, admittedly only from an accelerator, is much like that in essentially all early stage VC firm equity funding. That is, I'm failing to see how "both sides of the table" have much chance of shaking hands.

Why? As in the case of the OP, from all I can see, and as mentioned in the OP, to be considered for any funding at all, even via an accelerator, the startup needs to have a product that has traction in the market with that traction growing.

Before that traction, the guys with the checkbooks are not interested. After that traction, like the guys in the OP, I wonder why the heck they would want to take the term sheet, deal details, check, Delaware C Corp., Board of Directors, etc. instead of just growing, as in the OP, "organically".

Sure, I can imagine some exceptions, but the OP company was just two guys. More over, in the currently running Stanford course by Sam Altman and YC, the strong advice is to have 2-3 founders for a long time and be very slow to hire anyone.

So, the OP company had two founders, traction significant and growing, and, thus, qualified for some funding but with so few founders likely had a Ramem noodle level expenses and some revenue maybe free cash flow.

So, why take an equity check and all that comes with it instead of just continuing to grow organically?

Or, net, in simplest terms, it appears that by the time a startup, based on information technology and software where the product exists and has traction and was developed by a team of just 2-3, qualifies for funding, it will rarely still want or need it.

So, I'm losing just where the guys with the checkbooks expect to find startups they want to fund that will take the funding?

Yes, I can think of some rare exceptions, but otherwise, again, I'm not getting it on how anyone could expect the two sides of the table to do a deal?


Mod: The parent here got posted only because of some system error on the side of HN, that is, something about CloudFlare. I had no way to know that the post was accepted. The post should be deleted. After the HN side problem was fixed, I posted a revised version.

Okay, after reading the OP, explain something to me, because so far I just don't get it:

That is, from all I can see, the situation in the OP, admittedly only from an accelerator, is much like that in essentially all early stage VC firm equity funding. That is, as in the OP, I'm failing to see how "both sides of the table" ever have much chance of shaking hands.

Why? From all I can see, and as mentioned in the OP, to be considered for any funding at all, even via an accelerator, the startup needs to have a product that has traction in the market with that traction growing.

Before that traction, the guys with the checkbooks are not interested. With that traction, like the guys in the OP, I wonder why the heck the founders would want to take the term sheet, deal details, check, Delaware C Corp., Board of Directors, etc. instead of just growing, as in the OP, "organically".

Sure, I can imagine some exceptions, but the OP company was just two guys. Moreover, in the currently running Stanford course by Sam Altman and YC, the strong advice is to have 2-3 founders for a long time and be very slow to add anyone else.

So, the OP company had two founders, traction significant and growing, and, thus, qualified for some funding but with so few founders likely had expenses only at the Ramem noodle level and had some revenue and maybe free cash flow.

So, why take an equity check and all that comes with it instead of just continuing to grow organically?

Or, net, in simplest terms, it appears that by the time a startup, based on information technology and software where the product exists and has traction and was developed by a team of just 2-3, qualifies for funding, it will rarely still need or even want it.

So, I'm losing just where the guys with the checkbooks expect to find startups they want to fund that will take the funding.

Yes, I can think of some exceptions, but otherwise, again, I'm not getting it on how anyone could expect the two sides of the table to do a deal?

Two more points:

First, all across the US, Atlantic to Pacific, border to border, in crossroads, villages, up to the largest cities, the US is just awash in successful small businesses with 1-3 founders, often just 1, who do well. Indeed, from all I've seen, most of the nicer houses, 50 foot yachts, full tuition checks at private schools and colleges, late model luxury cars, etc. are paid for by such small business people.

These successful small business people rarely went to business school, never watched lectures on business such as the current YC course at Stanford, never went to an accelerator, and never got VC funding.

For being an information technology startup with a product just software and written by just 1-3 founders and with revenue, that should be one heck of an advantage compared with nearly all the rest of these millions of successful small businesses. If those millions of US small businesses can get to a good life style business, then the founders of a good information technology startup should be able to, also. And for further growth, a successful information technology startup should be able to generate plenty of free cash flow -- some software on a server can run by itself and make money sending ads 24 x 7 but for a guy with a successful pizza shop, or 10 such, each pizza has to be made by hand.

Then, with that nice start as a lifestyle business, maybe that information technology startup could continue rapid growth to be a major company.

I know; I know; there is a PG essay that a startup is intended for explosive growth and, thus, needs equity funding. Okay, but I'm missing just why the founders won't be happy with $20 million or $200 million and, instead, want to take on a lot of financial risk and burdens shooting for $2 billion to $20 billion. A rich guy can easily say, "I wouldn't walk across a street for another $1 million.".

But in all of this, I'm missing just where the accelerators or early stage VCs have a meaningful role to play. The VCs look like the Drawback on a football team, a third person twiddling their thumbs in a two person canoe, a fifth wheel on a wagon, mammary glands on a boar hog, or someone who wants to buy a ticket on an airplane after it has already left the ground.

Second, I have to be reminded of the Mother Goose story The Little Red Hen who found some grains of wheat but discovered that no one wanted to help her until she already had on her own built a bakery and had hot, fragrant loaves of bread and a line of eager customers and didn't need any help.


Sometimes people want to get to retirement money quicker than they could through organic growth. Or sometimes they want to push this idea to success/fail fast so that they can move onto the next project if it doesn't work out. Sometimes the organic lifestyle business approach is just boring.

The whole point of an "accelerator" is you do the same thing but faster. You get your business to where it would naturally be in five years time (whether that be success or failure), but you do it in one year. To some people that's valuable.


Off-topic, but, I'm sorry, what is difference between Talkroute and Line2... outside of Line2 costing 50% less, allowing multiple in-bound numbers, and also supporting toll-free numbers and free existing number porting?

Disclaimer: TS Chicago 2014

It's hard to choose where to start, as this blog post just misses it on so many levels. So, we'll just pick "Mentorship Is Not The Primary Focus."

This summer, we had over 150 mentors complete over 650 30m-1hr long mentor meetings with our cohort. On top of these meetings, each company was assigned a super mentor who worked closely with each team for at least an hour a week, throughout the summer. These mentors hail from companies like Groupon, GrubHub, Walmart, etc. and are not just random business people. On top of that, we spent countless hours with Troy, Steve, and Sam throughout the summer... often late into the night. The passion and care these people and this program exudes towards mentorship and entrepreneurial development is unmatched and, frankly, unquestionable.

Second, the assertion by the OP that "the focus on raising capital is just too strong" is curious and reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of the program. I concede that if you plan on doing an accelerator, you should most likely be planning to raise further investment capital after the program at some point. (As PG puts it, "A startup is a company designed to grow fast" and from what I see, usually this growth will be accelerated by the injection of capital.) After going through this program, however, I would say the focus in TS Chicago is not mainly on raising capital at all. Rather, it is squarely on building you as an entrepreneur in order to empower you to build your business, equip you to hustle up more traction, and provide you with the tools to raise money to continue accelerating your growth if you want. The leadership goes above and beyond to make themselves available to you throughout the program regardless of the business or personal need.

Third, the dilution math is just so bad. Other folks have addressed it in this thread, so I'm not going to go into detail. But geez.

Fourth, looking purely at the "valuation" you get for 6% for $18k is an incredibly short-sighted way to understand the value you are getting out of the program. Mentorship, the network, deep friendships, and core business knowledge are just a few pieces of the value added. But even if you want to add pure money related perks, please review this: http://www.techstars.com/program/perks/. Such free. Much hosting.

Fifth, demo day. At first, I was under the impression that demo day was all about pitching investors my business in the hopes of drumming up some interest in our next round of funding. After going through that process, my view changed drastically. I am more equipped to explain my business, our purpose, our plan, and the landscape of what we are doing than I would ever have been without it. Not only do I deeply understand the story of my business, but I can articulate it to investors, mentors, customers, and our team with a clarity like never before. I wouldn't trade that insanely challenging demo day prep process for anything.

Sixth, asking someone a pointed question about the specifics of your business in hopes that they have the answer to it off the cuff with (based on where that point in the interview would have happened) 30 seconds to consider your query is a poor way to judge the quality of their ability to contribute to your business over the lifetime of their involvement.

Finally, I'll end this discussion with these remarks:

TechStars is about relationships and equipping entrepreneurs. If you come into the program with a teachable spirit and are willing to listen and learn from the incredibly knowledgeable and generous people in charge, then you will come away with invaluable experience and tools to apply to your current startup, as well as to other businesses you may start throughout rest of your life. That is truly the offer on the table. Paul and co. missed out, but hey... maybe we were company 11? If so... thanks guys!


I know it's easy to view perks as window dressing, but some of the things offered by TechStars are game changers for a business's tech teams, particularly in the early stage.

Granted, these perks do eventually go away and you have to have ample business justification for technology costs. But at the outset it's a godsend to know your business has the financial headroom to address any early technical challenge.

Benefits like web hosting / services credits allow all that financial hassle to get out of the way in the early game so you can just focus on delivering the best product possible.


> things offered by TechStars are game changers

List them. If you are going to use words such as 'game changers', you should explain what the perks are.

> Benefits like web hosting / services credits allow all that financial hassle to get out of the way

For most early stage startups, hosting costs represent extremely low % of expenses. Let's just call this what it is.. cheap way to lock start-ups in your infrastructure.

Same as investing.. give them a year worth of 'funding' and hope they become a massive paying customer.


> List them.

They're linked in the parent to my original reply.

> Let's just call this what it is.. cheap way to lock start-ups in your infrastructure

Whose infrastructure? Perks come from Amazon, Microsoft, Softlayer, Rackspace, Digital Ocean, and others. That's a pretty wide swath of hosting providers, but I guess if you want to run your business from a couple of boxes under your desk, you're on your own.

> For most early stage startups, hosting costs represent extremely low % of expenses.

Cost is relative. $5k/mo for a year (citing the BizSpark Plus credit directly here) can make a big difference early on when you're pre-revenue. In the case of TechStars, this is particularly true if you decide not to take the convertible note.


> if you want to run your business from a couple of boxes under your desk

Now there's an idea.


> They're linked in the parent to my original reply.

Okay how are they a game changers? How did they impact you?

> That's a pretty wide swath of hosting providers

They are still trying to do the same thing I described. It's a marketing play.

> If you want to run your business from a couple of boxes under your desk.

Been there, done that. Things were different ten years ago. Now you can get a VPS for a price of coffee.

> Cost is relative. $5k/mo for a year (citing the BizSpark Plus credit directly here)

It's $5K a month for a reason. They either have no traction or most start ups will never hit that limit or even come close to that price tag within the first year.

Sure there are exceptions, but if you are really pushing $5K /month on BizSpark at an early stage you should step back and figure out where you are now and where you want to be in a year after that credit runs out.


> It's a marketing play.

I hope there's no one in this thread naive enough to think otherwise. Of course it's a marketing play. That doesn't mean it can't benefit you.

Your initial point concerned vendor lock in and how this was a cheap way for companies to impose it. My response to that was "lock in to whom?" due to the diverse hosting providers on offer. Granted no mom and pop VPS provider is amongst the perk list (to my knowledge), but you have a several serious options to choose from.

In terms of my company the perks provided did anything but impose vendor lock in. I put parts of my infrastructure where it made the most sense for our business. This actually ended up being multiple providers amongst the list of those offering perks. If anything the benefits on offer from TechStars (and YES other accelerators that join these incentive programs) led to a more diverse and robust infrastructure setup which I hope will benefit us more in the long run.

But yes, fine, I acknowledged in another response lower down on this page that I should have qualified my original statement. The perks on offer were a game changer for my business because it gave us the freedom to choose providers and technologies that made the most sense for the product. For us this was crucial at an early stage and benefitted us immensely. I would assume our company was not necessarily unique in this regard, but perhaps I'm wrong.

In either case, who cares? You either were or weren't going to join TechStars or some other accelerator because the accelerator's terms made sense for your business when weighed against the benefits. Perks are just that...perks. Not fundamental lynchpins upon which you hope to run your business. My only initial argument was these perks are substantive and helpful, and shouldn't be dismissed outright. Apologies if that initial argument was not well-formed enough to get that point across to you effectively.


> but some of the things offered by TechStars are game changers

You're really going to need to elaborate on this. Some of those perks (maybe even all of them) are not things TechStars paid for.. they're things that other companies chose to give away to startups in an accelerator (of which TechStars is one).

I really don't understand why I should give TechStars kudos because they slapped Amazon's logo on a page and a short blurb about a program that Amazon has for startups.

This is a serious question: if Amazon (and Microsoft, SoftLayer, Paypal, and others) setup a program for startups, give the services to startups, and pay for those services from their own pockets... What did TechStars do to earn a share of the credit for those programs?


> Some of those perks (maybe even all of them) are not things TechStars paid for.. they're things that other companies chose to give away to startups in an accelerator (of which TechStars is one).

Of course they aren't. Many are conditional against being enrolled in an accelerator. However, like I said in a previous post, the linked article relates to turning down TechStars. Full stop. Not turning down TechStars for some other accelerator that offers many of the same perks.

> This is a serious question: if Amazon (and Microsoft, SoftLayer, Paypal, and others) setup a program for startups, give the services to startups, and pay for those services from their own pockets... What did TechStars do to earn a share of the credit for those programs?

They were a participating accelerator in that program, that's all (to my limited knowledge).

In relation to these perks being "game changers" it isn't about TechStars having better perks than Accelerator X, it's about TechStars allowing me access to benefits I didn't have before joining an accelerator that ended up being enormously helpful to my startup.

The "game changer" in my company's case was the peace of mind that comes from knowing that for a full year we can shave at least $5k/mo (once again quoting the BizSpark credit here for convenience) off of our operating expenses. That's a technology hire for us in the city where we are based. So, for us, it means a lot.

I apologize because I obviously colored my original statement through the lens of my company's own experience.

This statement:

> but some of the things offered by TechStars are game changers

should have been qualified by stating that it was coming from personal perspective. So, in the short term, these perks meant a lot to the technological freedom of my company based on our technology needs and the other places we could put those savings to work based on our business needs at the time. For my business, the perks made a difference and were a big help early on, they may not do anything for your business or others.


> But even if you want to add pure money related perks, please review this: http://www.techstars.com/program/perks/. Such free. Much hosting.

Some of those are programs that are open to any company in any accelerator.

http://aws.amazon.com/activate/

http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/

http://www.softlayer.com/catalyst

https://blueprint.paypal.com/

Not really a reason to pick techstars over another program


Disclaimer: I work for Google on Cloud Platform.

Yep, TechStars is just one of many incubators and accelerators we've partnered with (and we're happy to take more):

  https://cloud.google.com/startups

Why is it you focus specifically on accelerators? It seems to me that this both fails to help the start-ups that could most use the help and misses many of the very best start-ups that eschew accelerators altogether.

that is true of most of these programs.

I guess it's to avoid having to vet each request individually.

Accepting them without any check means I'd create a new "startup" for each random page I put on the internet just to get free stuff, but having to verify each request may become a pain point quickly. Being part of an accelerator means that the work has been done by someone else.


That's true.. but Amazon and BizSpark do not have the accelerator requirement* . Considering that those are Google Cloud's direct competitors, it's a fair question why they have that requirement when their competitors don't.

* (both programs give addtl resources if you're in an accelerator though - amazon portfolio package and bizspark plus respectively)


I agree this seems too be missing the largest percentage of startups who are no less deserving for this kind of help. Many good startups could use this help. It's not hard to figure out if it's a legitimate startup. Just make sure they're registered to do business (i.e., FEIN, tax ID, state license, etc.).

> Not really a reason to pick techstars over another program

When was this a debate about picking techstars over any other program? The article relates to picking nothing as opposed to joining TechStars. I think these perks are a little harder to come by when you turn an accelerator down for the no op as opposed to "I picked accelerator B instead of accelerator A".

I'd tell you that if you wanted to do an apples to apples comparison of accelerators we should save that for another thread lest we get too off topic, but that hasn't stopped others in this thread from turning the article into a TS vs Other Accelerator debate, so why should it stop you?


It is always a debate about picking from the choices available. Just like the equity portion, it's all baked into the decision even if it's discussing the specific equity offer.

Not sure why you feel so passionately about this.


> Fourth, looking purely at the "valuation" you get for 6% for $18k is an incredibly short-sighted way to understand the value you are getting out of the program. Mentorship, the network, deep friendships, and core business knowledge are just a few pieces of the value added. But even if you want to add pure money related perks, please review this: http://www.techstars.com/program/perks/. Such free. Much hosting.

No, an exchange of equity for money should be reviewed purely as such.

It's certainly in one party's interest to cloud the judgement by throwing in a bunch of free stuff, but that's also what used car dealers do when they "throw in just for you" a free carwash, a full tank of gas and, heck, why not, some free floor mats to close the deal.


Your point is red herring. TechStars and YC investments are actually structured similarly (with slight differences, e.g. YC uses safe instead of convert debt) and primarily to optimize for tax. Not a single sophisticated investor will look at the valuation implied by YC or TechStars initial seed as indication of value. In fact, there is a very recent example of an up-and-coming consumer startup that closed a small seed round at ~$3mm valuation immediately after they got into an accelerator and at much higher valuation post demo day. VCs simply don't view accelerator rounds as "down rounds" and understand that value is likely to go up along with their mark.

Unfortunately for OP, they miss on each point by about a mile, come across as bit inexperienced (even arrogant) and at the same time lost on an opportunity to learn about building and growing a high tech business.

1. No Large Exits. Large exits are few and far between in general. On the other hand, TechStars has very few (~10?) startups per batch in any given city which could be why they haven't seen large exits yet.

2. Progress Stats. Don't see how an accelerator can help you hustle growth and how this is a relevant metric for evaluating an accelerator. Hustle is something that will always be squarely in founders' court and while mentors can help you with advice and intros, the results will largely depend on founders' efforts. If you are B2B, then access to alumni company network could be helpful.

3. Raising Capital Does Not Equate to Success. No, but it is very important particularly at an early stage where your sole purpose is to build something people want and grow it as fast as you can.

4. Equity. Math is wrong. Also, see above on the implied valuation point.

5. Mentorship Is Not The Primary Focus. I have no basis to judge this but highly doubt that OP would have any basis either since they didn't actually go through the program. Focus on demo day makes sense, especially as you approach it. Raising funding and giving your business a runway to growth is important.


I just want to say that I completely agree with all the points you made. I just finished attending the Techstars' Patriot Boot Camp. And while this program isn't meant to be a traditional accelerator program, I really got a sense for what Techstars does and how they operate. Even though this event was highly condensed I learned a lot about my business and got a tremendous amount of value from the program.

Why do I see so many similar posts? Is it cool to turn something down other people want and make a blog post about it?

The internet these days is much like McDonald's, instant gratification and quantity over quality.


> So regardless of our startup’s position on raising VC, we were obligating ourselves to months of preparation for the pitch.

This is also a big one. Your time as a founder, especially in a new start-up is invaluable.


It's also invaluable to be able to stand in front of a group of people (whether VCs, the press, other startups) and be able to clearly communicate what your startup does.

Viewing Demo Day as a tool that's only useful if you're fundraising on the back of it is incredibly shortsighted.


That's not my point. There is no need for this to be mandatory. When company is ready they should be able to present at another demo day, etc.

I also think the founders know better where the time needs to be spend and at what stage they should focus on PR.

Cookie cutter approach does not work for everybody.


> I also think the founders know better where the time needs to be spend and at what stage they should focus on PR.

If that were the case then accelerators wouldn't exist and the "national rate of failure for startups" wouldn't be 75 to 90%.


We turned down TechStars for Alchemist. 3x better terms, better network, 6 month program, incredible mentor network, largely tied to Stanford.

Since 2012 Alchemist Accelerator has advanced 64 companies according to CrunchBase. Of these, 29 companies have received more than a 1M raise and of these, four have raised around $5M at a $25M pre-money valuation.

http://alchemistaccelerator.com

http://bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2014/09/26/ten-b2b-inter...


Have only heard of Alchemist second-hand and not seen anyone pick it over YC/TC. Would love to chat with you more on it: sjigjinni at google mail

For the effort put into this you probably could have gotten your 150k users

Can't read clear grey on white background (#7a for font color?? are you kidding me??!?); maybe TS or another accelerator would have taught those guys a thing or two about legibility and testing.

Also (without reading the article) why did they apply if they knew they didn't like the deal in the first place? Aren't they wasting everyone's time, starting with their own?


The math is feverishly wrong, but that's not the point.

Techstars is a NETWORK. For us (Boulder 2013) it was a window into a world we only saw through occasional blog posts. Techstars is a NETWORK of crazy people who risk everything to start companies. Some of those companies are absolutely amazing, and we have access to their founders, we know them personally. We never even dreamt of such honor.

Before Techstars, we had access to our desks.

For first-time founders, Techstars is truly an opportunity of a lifetime.

If you get accepted, do it. Don't listen to these fools.


You can't call someone with a well reasoned argument a 'fool'. These guys explain very well the 'why not', and they aren't advising first time founders to turn TS down.

TS Austin 2014

Techstars Austin was an invaluable experience for our team. It seems like the founders did not factor the opportunity for personal growth when they made their decision. Some may argue that the company's growth comes first, but sometimes that can only happen when the founders are growing too.

We were the youngest company in our class. We actually used the Techstars investment as a means to incorporate and set everything up. Another factor is that all of us were first time founders. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure all 11 companies in our class had first time founders.

The Austin program was broken into three phases:

Month 1 - Mentor Meetings: For the first four weeks we had dozens of meetings with the program's mentors. The mentors were a healthy mix of past Techstars founders, angels, VCs, and biz dev partners. It was exhausting at the time (5-6/day, 4 days/week), but definitely worth it. We used the meetings as pitch practice, and iterated how we described our business along the way. I also learned a lot about my co-founders in those meetings. Seeing them describe our business to other people was very revealing about how they felt about things. Super valuable.

Month 2 - Development: The second month was all about taking the first month of endless feedback and getting to work on advancing our business. We used the second month to build our MVP, speak with potential customers, and build partnerships. The Techstars staff was hands off, but were a big help whenever we asked for it. We accomplished a lot in our second month.

Month 3 - Fundraising/Demo Day: The Techstars staff started to get more hands on in the last month to help us with our Demo Day pitch and fundraising plans. There was more structure, but we had the absolute freedom to do what we wanted. It was a bit distracting from our business the last few weeks, but the experience of Demo Day was amazing and completely worth it.

I highly recommend Techstars for any company with first time founders. We were able to go from polished idea to MVP within three months, and achieve a high level of personal growth at the same time. It's also worth mentioning that I now have 50+ amazing new friends that went through the same experience I did.


I am an Excelerate Labs (now TS Chicago) grad whose company just did a 2.5M Series A. I consider the accelerator program to be an enormous component in my success. We still bug Troy and Steve on a weekly basis and they have never hesitated to help us out on anything. My classmates have turned in to war buddies who I can talk to about things that no friend or family member understands. I learned way more than I ever needed to know not only about VC but about the fundamentals of a healthy business. I wouldn't trade my experience there for anything in the world.

If you map the raises of post-accelerator/incubator startups in Europe, you see a fascinating trend which suggests that the vast majority raise almost no money of any consequence (to the point where there's just one, Transferwise, in Europe which has raised significant external investment to my knowledge).

Capital clearly is not the best proxy for success or trajectory, but it's a visible and widely available (usually) metric.

Could be that Techstars are smart about picking startups which have low working capital. More likely is that the best startups in London and elsewhere are run by people who have access to mentorship by hustling in their own network, and raise money by being good at execution.


This is unrelated to your decision to turn down Techstars, but do you expect people not to notice the resemblance of your introductory video to this ad by Apple? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZmIiIXuZ0

I'm not affiliated with Techstars at all. But this seems a bit tasteless. How would you feel if someone from Techstars had rejected you, and then posted a long explanation of "Why I Rejected Talkroute"?

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