Last year we moved to place a bit outside city. Previously, waking up on weekends meant planning a hike somewhere. Now we are just like "hey it's pretty nice just to chill here, lets just stay home". Sure, travel is more about discovering something new, but from beauty side, it sometimes even annoys me how pretty NZ is.
Culture wise, I keep saying NZ is like 50s in US - tons of new expats, everyone with decent background, keen to work hard. Most of Europe and US has now second generation foreigners which is not that interesting. Simple number: software teams I worked on only had 10-30% of kiwi's.
I made the move in 2006. Lived in New Zealand for the next ten years (returned to the U.S. last year). I'll try to give a detailed, informed picture instead of a quick summary because...well, I'm bored at work right now and it's friday, so why not.
Initially, I loved it. I was young and open-minded and it is easy to romanticize that kind of relocation for a while.
I found work and got comfortable enough there. After a year or two or three, the scenic country-side and beaches don't matter as much as you're just bogged down in the routine of living life.
Culturally, Auckland is an interesting place. I believe over 50% of the population there is non-white/european. Lots of asian immigrants come there as well as peoples of the middle-east, India, the south pacific and elsewhere. This means a thriving international community with plenty of good restaurants and food courts. Most of my friends there were not native kiwi's. As a matter of fact, I found it hard to make friends and break-in to the native kiwi social groups. My theory there is it was just easier to meet and mingle with internationals who didn't already have a social clique.
Most Kiwi's are fairly liberal (at least in Auckland), and most do travel overseas at some point and have a larger world perception than average I'd say. Though I found some attitudes and local social norms to be a bit dated. Kiwi's in general are non-confrontational and as an American you can often find yourself being over-bearing or over-stated simply because people don't share their opinions as vocally. They love Rugby and Cricket as much as Americans love football and baseball. Drinking is a large component of the culture and workplace. Most work places have Friday drinks and you will find yourself alienated if you don't participate. The youth start drinking way too early as well.
Weather-wise, it is chilly most of the year, but not severely cold. Auckland has a rainy/drizzle season that overlaps most of the winter. Hardly anyone has A/C and those that do, don't use it because electricity is not very cheap. Luckily the Summer doesn't get too severe and doesn't last too long.
Work and career-wise, Auckland has most of the job opportunities. I felt people were generally underpaid and there was not a lot of disposable income but I suppose it all depends on your career. Most work places are outdated in their attitudes and are practicing what was popular easily 10-15 years ago in the U.S. But again, this largely depends on what you do and how big the company is. Holiday benefits are great. A full-time employee gets 4 weeks of paid holiday per year, plus two weeks paid sick-leave, plus all the public holidays (almost another 2 weeks worth). As a permanent employee, it's also harder to get fired. People generally didn't fire employees unless they do something illegal or keep repeating some grave error. They usually are forced to get rid of you through re-structuring and lay-offs (redundancies). Unions have fallen out of favor though they are still around and relevant in some cases. A lot of companies unfortunately are using loopholes, like hiring you as a contractor or giving you less than full-time work as to avoid paying full holiday benefits. I often worked as a contractor until after 5 years in one place I was able to finally get in as a permanent. Taxes are not nearly as bad as you might expect, especially with the near free healthcare. Sales tax (GST) on the other hand are at a ridiculous 15%.
Healthcare, there are pros and cons. Generally my experience was good. All hospital visits are free. Any accident of any nature is generally covered by what they call ACC, which all residents have. Think of it as an accidental injury insurance that's mandatory. If you register with a local doctor, you'll pay a subsidized rate for your visit, something like $25-60, depending on the place. Babies and Children go for free. Subscriptions are also heavily subsidized and I think you'll pay like $10 per prescription fill though I can't remember exactly. Some people do purchase private health insurance though most don't. We ended doing so for our kids because it wasn't much and it helped in a few scenarios. Adults do not get any Dental healthcare for free and dental insurance is expensive or hard to come by. This is by far one of the worst expenses you'll face regarding health costs. Kids do get free dental care till they are 18 though. The hospital and healthcare system has a tendency to work in slow-motion. Hospitals are understaffed and over-worked and people sometimes wait months to get an operation scheduled if it's not urgent. This is where the private health insurance can speed things up.
Love-life/dating/marriage - If you are not already married, your prospects are good here. Auckland has over a million people in the area and chances are you will find someone if you look hard enough. Do not count on meeting people organically. findsomeone.co.nz is the match.com of New Zealand. You're probably better off meeting someone there than you are at a club or pub. I went on dozens of dates using online dating services and no one ever thought it was weird that I talked to. I found my wife this way, a university student, studying in Auckland and originally from China. We have two kids now and are happily married. If you are looking for that commitment, and enjoy going out, there are plenty of "meat-grinder" clubs that people go to specifically to hook up and Auckland has a vibrant nightlife scene (which quickly tires for anyone past college age years). There are even some cool places that don't focus on hook-ups, like jazz-bars, etc.. And if you are looking for even less commitment, you're really in the right place because prostitution is legal in NZ and there are plenty of message parlours to choose from with many exotic, international girls. Legal or not (I suspect some of them don't have the proper licenses in any case), these places are as shady as you'd expect. I'd probably advise staying away though I had a few friends that indulged and loved these places and I'm not judging...
Cost of living and housing, in Auckland these are not cheap. 3 bedroom bungalows 15 miles outside of the city could easily cost you $500,000-600,000 USD or more. A lot of products are imported and more expensive due to New Zealand's geological isolation. Food and eating out have inflated to prices I could not justify easily. Still there are deals to be had. Find a $5 kebab in the city or a $5 pizzahut deal and you're good to go, right? I made my lunch most days and even went on a tuna sandwhich binge after we bought our house. Product variety and competition are significantly less than the U.S. and as a result, most things cost more. We did not have any expendable income. Almost all of my wage went to paying the mortgage and my wife had to pay for the utilities, and food costs out of her salary, usually leaving nothing. Luckily, we were able to snag some gov't subsidized help on the children's daycare. When I lost my job through re-structuring, I spent about 9 month unemployed, and if it wasn't for my Wife's mother, we probably would have had a house. There is a safety net in NZ and if you are poor enough (basically without any income), you will get enough from the gov't to house and feed you and your kids. It won't be pleasant but you wouldn't end up on the street.
Retrospect or hindsight or whatever you call is a strange thing. I guess I'll always love NZ in some ways. It was my home for a decade. I met my wife there. I had friends there. I probably regarded it as better than the U.S. for most of my time there.
In recently coming back to the U.S. though, I have come to recognize how truly different we are (some might say lucky). Without a doubt we have the most comfortable life-style, the most modern conveniences, the most overall accessible, luxury lifestyle that you can get. We also make more money at our jobs, though we work harder. We have thousands of choices in our consumer lifestyle, cutting technology in products and services that the rest of the world is denied, and we get it all for dirt cheap. Am I saying that all of this is good or healthy? I'm not going to get into that but I have decided to move my family here because, a) I want to make them comfortable and to be able to afford basic needs for them more easily (like being able to heat the house during winter so you don't wake up to find they discarded their clothes and blanket in the night and are shivering cold). I won't get as much time off but at least I can freaking afford to take them to disney world when I do, which is better than 4 weeks off, spent at home because you have no money. I want to feel confident that I can make a living and get a job and I want my children to have those job opportunities when they get older as well. I also want them to have the ambition and confidence to follow their crazy dreams (something I saw disturbingly lacking in the culture of New Zealand). I don't know what it is about us americans, maybe we are too stupid or have our heads in the clouds, or maybe there are just more opportunities, but we have a tendency to just go for it in a way I didn't see often in NZ culture.
In conclusion, I'd say that for me at least, NZ was probably a great place as a single and even the early years of my marriage but with having a family, I'll take the mod-cons and financial elevation of the U.S. over the thread-bare existence we had in NZ. Maybe it's all a system that is doomed and going to collapse or whatever but like how surfers go to where the waves are, the waves are here right now and choosing whether I want my kids to be New Zealand or American, I still think they'll be better off being American.
If I had already established a career and wanted to settle down I'd probably like NZ more, but I feel like I'm missing out by being in NZ compared to somewhere more populous like the US or Europe.
How old are the people you're talking to? For reference, I'm 23 and just started my career.
Funny how it goes from appealing to "American Lord of the Rings nerds and Peter Thiel" really quickly.
Had our honeymoon in New Zealand and really loved it. Auckland and Wellington are both beautiful, but, frankly, I'd rather be somewhere more relaxed like Nelson. I wish we had spent more time enjoying the south island and less time up north. Not so practical if you're trying to find work, though, I suppose. (I didn't make it to Christchurch).
The housing prices really did surprise, though. Granted, most places I looked at housing costs were more "wandering around town, find real estate office, look at what's in the window" so it ended up being expensive places like Auckland, Queenstown, Wanaka, etc, but it was still quite surprising, and left me wondering how anyone could afford it without bringing in money from the outside.
Then again, the grass is always greener -- I moved from Seattle to the SF area 15 years ago for the better weather and better traffic (don't laugh!) yet every time I travel, I find myself drawn to living in places like Reykjavik, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Nelson, etc. I'm sure the realities of the climates of these various places would come to me after the novelty wore off. And perhaps I just look fondly upon them because they remind me of "home" -- even though I was so happy to leave it.
I'm NZ born and raised. It can but pretty but also cold, isolated, poor (though last 20 years have been good), rural, friendly but blunt culture, multicultural but racist, welcoming but progressive-snobby, expensive low quality housing, high suicide rate. Lots of clean air due to low population density.
You dont realize how far away from everything it is. Sure there are the 12 hour flights to anywhere except Australia, but also the jetlag, opposite seasons from the North.
My wife and I just moved back to the US after living in NZ for 1.5 years. Sure, the cost of living is higher and yes the pay is lower. We went in knowing both of those things. NZ is a great country for people who love nature and the outdoors. The citizenry seem to have a higher level of respect for nature and how to protect it.
There is also socialized medicine and the ACC covering all accidents on NZ soil is great, so comparing costs directly isn't the same.
However not everything is great, it does feel a little isolating being on the other side of the world on a tiny island and their covid controls did start to feel a little draconian. (Even after we got more than 90% of the eligible population vaxed we were still in a strict lockdown with almost no-one allowed through the borders).
Overall I was sad to leave, but our families are both in the US and ultimately it was time to come home.
For decades New Zealand has had trouble attracting immigrants. And they lose a lot of young talented native Kiwi people to places like the U.S., Australia, and Great Britain.
There's really no comparison between the US and New Zealand when it comes to immigration. They're opposites.
And, let's see how this latest attempt to attract high-skill immigrants goes. It's easy to romanticize New Zealand when you've spent your whole life in big US cities. Moving there is another thing entirely. It is remote and mostly rural. I will not be surprised if most Americans who go there come back within a few years.
People seem to fetishise New Zealand like it's some quaint rural paradise, where everybody is really polite and friendly to each other. This article really paints the country like a bunch of country bumpkins.
It's a developed country like any other. We have the same problems as other developed countries. Auckland is a city just like any other.
That's not to say New Zealand is not amazing, because it is, but it's not perfect.
I think that the author did do a very good job at summarising up the national ethos though. It really is about having a go and doing the best with what you've got, it doesn't matter where you're from or who your parents are. Unfortunately, I think this ethos is slowly dying, as people become more sedentary, and a nouveau riche is beginning to emerge, while a generation of kiwis are doomed to a life of renting from them.
And I do firmly believe that if it all goes to shit, the rich Americans in Queenstown won't last a week, it will be the cockies (farmers) in their stations that will prevail, having spent a lifetime on the land, fighting nature, all to raise a few sheep.
Seriously America is huge you could adventure around the states seeing a bunch of different lifestyles, and environments without ever having to get a passport. In that sense perspectives are very, very different between the US and NZ. You've really got to compare it to, moving out of state. How many people in the US move around states for jobs/lifestyles etc ?
When you grow up in New Zealand, it's almost a rite of passage to do your "OE" - overseas experience. It's part of the culture to go and explore the world. And of course young 20 somethings travelling meet other foreign young 20 somethings and it's pretty easy to see where that stat comes from. "Your country or mine? (the girl usually wins)"
I grew up in a small town, lived in Auckland, now live in Toronto, Canada. The Greater Toronto area is the same population as all of New Zealand. Is it any better or worse ? No. It's just different. It all depends on what floats your boat. Are you an adventure sports junkie ? New Zealand is pretty much heaven on earth (I'm guessing Colorado would be awesome if you dug winter and summer sports together). Do you like bustling metropolis ? Well Toronto kinda rocks - Canadian and Kiwi philosophies are very close (although BC is far closer in life style to New Zealand, than over in Ontario)
There is so many factors for what's good in a country - a lot are dependent on the invididual. What will be one persons heaven could be another persons "meh", quality of living, friendships, relationships, career choices, sports, food quality, environment yadda yadda.
As a New Zealander living overseas, in my case, the pull to go home is very strong and ever present. And I will say this when I finally move home, I will never, ever complain that it's freezing in winter.
Also another kiwi: grew up in a coastal city in the North Island and moved to Auckland for uni, dropped out and started working in the industry (best decision) before eventually moving to London.
Been here 3.5 years now (although I still don't know if 2020 really counts) and the tech sector is great here. Maybe not as cutting edge/well funded/as high salaries as America, but I feel like the work/life balance is better in Europe.
NZ is great but I have a feeling I'll head back there once I'm a lot older; it's beautiful but there are very few opportunities when you're young.
Actually last time I was in NZ I ended up doing remote work for companies in the UK/Europe, it was a big factor in why I returned to London. It's a couple years later and while things are comfy here I do kick myself sometimes for not giving NZ a proper go re. a software dev job while I was on my WHV (working holiday visa). I think if I moved to NZ, I would have to work for an NZ company in order to possibly eventually qualify for residence, as I don't have any other ties to the country. Otherwise, I would definitely consider remoting for a foreign company.
I would've thought NZ would more attract people who are more interested in work/life balance and an outdoorsy lifestyle than people who are more interested in interesting tech/projects, for that you need to go to California or to metropolises like Melbourne/London/Berlin. At least this is what my stereotyped view has been.
EDIT: I misread that you were from Australia but in NZ, but actually you're in Aus.
I left NZ in 2011 and came back recently. It's still more or less the same place I remember. If you are an active outdoorsy type, I don't think there are many places in the world that compare to NZ. Where I live I can be at a surfing beach within 10 minutes. Rock climbing in the hills in 10 minutes. Skiing in the Southern Alps in 2 hours. Hiking a beautiful trail in 2 hours (with warm modern huts available for 5 NZD/night). All while having access to free healthcare, and a decent disposable income thanks to a relatively low living cost (Auckland is an exception).
Downsides are poor public transport (cheap Japanese imports mean everyone chooses to own a vehicle), expensive food compared to EU or USA, and few jobs outside of the tourism & service industries.
That's basically what I thought, but it sucks to hear that.
Whereabouts did you go from NZ? I'm working remotely right now and want to leave NZ after travel opens up. Compared to other places in the world NZ seems terrible for a young, single guy in tech.
I love NZ... but I live in Melbourne, Australia and there are tons of kiwis here (including many close friends and colleagues). They come here because salaries are better, adjusted cost of living is less and there are just more opportunities for professionals.
Australia isn't perfect but I'm not really sure that NZ is a more attractive destination for tech workers.
NZer here. Everything is expensive, there are some good houses, and local opportunities don't matter if you have your own business or work remotely for a US company (I've done both). With the right remote job you get paid enough to not worry about the expense. And NZ rocks: sane politics, great environment. And if you live in Auckland: great weather, diverse, great food.
erm, is this a joke? If its not I am a kiwi living abroad who is in the country right now (briefly). If you want to catch up I will be coming through Auckland in the next few weeks.
NZ is an extraordinarily picturesque country filled with sweet but naive people. As a small-town kiwi boy I have had my mind blown in the last few years traveling and working in some of the poorest parts of the world. The really difficult thing is coming back and trying to tell people there is more to life than the frequently changing weather conditions or the latest All Blacks result
As someone who's lived nearly my whole life in NZ and considers myself a large part Kiwi, I think they're overdoing this a bit.
- Auckland is not walkable. It's very spread out, and the public transport is awful, so it's not practical to visit many places without a car. It probably helped that they had friends with an apartment overlooking Herne Bay, but that's a pretty expensive neighbourhood; most of us couldn't afford to live there.
- They didn't see a Target or Gap because we don't have them, but NZ certainly does have McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, Subway and a few other multinational fast food joints. They must have been amazingly lucky to avoid them - I'd think it'd be a pretty hard trick to plot a journey that didn't run into any of them.
- You can actually get tomatoes at any time of the year.
A lot of the reasons I left were work-related, which they wouldn't see from a ten-day holiday. Even in Auckland, interesting IT jobs are rarer than you'd like; 99% of the jobs I saw advertised looked to be soulless C++/Java/C# forms-based applications for some internal business thing.
Money's not great either; despite paying a lot more on rent in London now, I'm financially better off than I was in Auckland. Salaries are higher to counter the rent, and most of the rest of the cost of living is not a lot different. Some things are much cheaper; books, for example, cost a fortune in NZ (weirdly, milk as well, despite all the dairy farming).
The nightlife is okay in Auckland but a big pain in the ass to get to/from, unless you can afford to live nearby. The lack of public transport really bites here.
I like the place overall, and I'll always have a soft spot for it, but there's another side to this story that I think they're missing.
Culture wise, I keep saying NZ is like 50s in US - tons of new expats, everyone with decent background, keen to work hard. Most of Europe and US has now second generation foreigners which is not that interesting. Simple number: software teams I worked on only had 10-30% of kiwi's.
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