You're constructing a narrative that puts history on its head. China has allowed foreign firms to come in and exploit cheap Chinese labor. Foreign companies have made enormous profits off of this. Not only do companies like Apple benefit hugely from Chinese labor, but they have also found a market of hundreds of millions of buyers of their product there. Foreign auto manufacturers dominate the Chinese domestic market - VW is the best-selling car brand in China, the world's largest auto market.
You're saying that China has been retaliating by giving foreign companies access to cheap labor and hundreds of millions of customers. That's completely backwards.
The reason Apple uses Chinese suppliers is because the Chinese are the only ones who can do the supplying. There is no other place to get a computer made. Apple could start a factory in the USA, but it would take 10 years to spin it up. Chinese labor would need to be imported because nobody in the USA has the right expertise.
The factories in the article are not Apple's. They are Chinese factories owned by Chinese companies run by Chinese people. This isn't old school imperialism. This is new school global trade. Apple already leans on the Chinese to clean up their labor practices, which is arguably more imperialistic behavior than doing business with them.
I'm not an Apple fan, probably more of an Apple hater, but why is Apple the bad guy for seeking cheaper labor? Why is it the consumers problem that China allows it's citizens to be treated like shit? Why is this ethical responsibility somehow always offloaded to the consumer?
Not true, I said I would used an alternative to Apple if all tech companies did not produce computers in similar or worse factories. The bulk of the blame, not all of the blame, has to fall on Chinese government. The government is in the business of protecting it's people from foreign dangers. These multinational companies are allowing things to happen to foreigners (the chinese people) that would be illegal in their home nation. The Chinese government has the bulk of the blame because Chinese government approved these companies, the Chinese Government approves of every single foreign entity, it's not hands off. Immediately the abuses would stop if the Chinese government ordered it to. The Government can not protect it's own people from foreign harm, (foxxcon is not a Chinese company) then that Government should be blamed. No China is not using its power to stop this because if it did it won't happen on such a large scale. Moreover I never said American workers are not exploited, it happens, but what is happening in China is far worse.
Corporate greed is always about blind outsourcing. You get the savings and you don't care how you get them. I have no doubt that Apple is capable of manufacturing their own devices. They chose not to. If workers were getting treated like crap, Apple is to blame. period.
I'm not saying don't make stuff in China, I'm saying we can be good employers in China and set a standard by treating employees like we would expect NA employees to be treated, with respect and dignity.
The Chinese conscript students into internship at their electronics factories? Not nice. Not Apple's fault.
How come this blistering expose of Chinese labor practices didn't blame Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Asus, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Intel, I.B.M., Lenovo, Microsoft, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Sony or Vizio? It's so attention-grabbing to blame Apple, even though, as far as I know, Apple is the only one among these companies to have even expressed concern about these issues.
Here's the real problem: The Chinese government is determined to dominate electronics manufacture and, as the article illustrates, is willing to go to what we would consider outlandish lengths to succeed. Don't fool yourself that low labor costs is the only reason companies source from China. Chinese companies, Foxconn included, are second to none in electronics expertise and manufacturing quality. That's why virtually every well-known brand is built there. Fix that and maybe consumers would pay a little more for more expensive labor. Maybe not. Don't fix that and there's really no question: no consumer will pay more for crappy products.
Apple is the most successful business in history. They have literally billions of dollars in the bank. The fact that they have reached this position by exploiting international labor conditions is dissonant with the glowing opinion of them in the American press. It is seen as hypocritical.
From your tone, I infer that you think you may agree - but that you feel conflict, and conceal that from yourself by lashing out at the messenger.
It is not a valid excuse to say they're Chinese, any more than it is valid to allow West Virginian mine workers to die of black lung to provide cheap heat for Philadelphia.
Injustice doesn't have to be in your own street for it to be injustice.
Apple pays its employees much better than what they would have been paid working at something else. That's why people flock there for a chance to work. My parents and grandparents are those exact people that would have had a much better quality of life if they had been given a chance to work at places like Foxconn. Luckily, they were able to escape China.
If you are so against it all (basic economics, the history of the world, etc), then don't buy products from Apple or any other company that uses Chinese manufacturing.
Apple has done far more for people than what you will ever do and you have the audacity to critique them. Do you not comprehend the arrogance of your statements?
Nobody here is disputing that China is abusing Uigher people.
But now you've shifted from the part I found dubious--that companies are knowingly engaging in slave labor--to a more clearly established pattern. One can be both horrified by China's treatment of Uigher people and skeptical that Foxconn, Apple, or any one of the 82 companies to which you've referred are complicit.
Apple is the worst offender here, they really bend over backwards. It is proper to single them out too as they are one of the biggest providers of consumer goods at a high margin. There is absolutely no reason they should be forced to use slave labour in china. That's not to say there are other companies that do the same, but they are not as valuable or provide such a highly visible product.
Imagine the effect if Apple actually took a decent stance here and how it could spread awareness about the conditions there.
Google for instance decided to just pull out of the market, I have a lot of respect for that.
I don't understand your argument. I agree that Apple could move production back to the US and still be quite profitable. But wouldn't that mean that thousands of Chinese workers would be worse off?
No, you are not attacking, but you really do not understand. Let me ask you a question. If Apple is assembling the iPhones in India, do you think the work condition is much better than that of Foxconn? And do you know that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company? Yes the Chinese government has their goals. They are corrupted and they do not care much about people. But, it's great they can offer great jobs to farmers assembling iPhones. Even though the work condition is so bad according to your standard.
bs. This makes it sound like these companies like Apple are harming the Chinese. I came from a developing country and I can tell you right now many people have to do much worse jobs to carve out some food for themselves and many others die from the lack of it. The moment you pull out jobs made possible by Apple and the likes, many will suffer.
Apple did all of this because they couldn't stand paying decent wages to US workers, so they outsourced Labour to China. Why people stand by this company...
That is not a reasonable criticism. However, Apple is far from the good guy. Look at all the pro China things they have done. People committing suicide after being forced to work endlessly. Agreeing to the Great Firewall rules to continue doing business in China. I'm sure it is similar in other countries too. We know the people who make nearly everything we buy are treated not much better than slaves. It is not just China, look at the Nabisco workers, look at the meat processing plants. And largely we don't care. There is no reason extreme pressure couldn't start to force changes at these companies but mostly we are just glad it isn't us. Our whole society has lost all sense of empathy and it is sad.
And to be even realer, Apple doing manufacturing in [country that isn't China] would have benefited the common factory worker in [country that isn't China] by driving up wages without also benefiting the totalitarian government of China.
Apple has repeatedly said that it’s not China’s cheaper labor. They don’t have as cheap labor anymore, especially compared to India, Vietnam, Philippines, etc. they say it’s because of the complex specialized knowledge of suppliers around Shenzhen and I’m inclined to believe them. You can choose to not trust them.
Overlooked sidebar: the fact that we are having this discussion, that China is listening to some degree, and that Apple is having an influence on Chinese labor conditions speaks volumes about how capitalism changes nations for the better. Anywhere a degree of free trade is introduced, freedom expands. In this case, these workers are going to be better off in the long run with Apple, because someone, somewhere in the Chinese bureaucracy, is making some money in the supply chain, and they don't want that to ever stop - even if that means giving these workers just a little more freedom, safety and salary.
You're saying that China has been retaliating by giving foreign companies access to cheap labor and hundreds of millions of customers. That's completely backwards.
reply