The Chinese conscript students into internship at their electronics factories? Not nice. Not Apple's fault.
How come this blistering expose of Chinese labor practices didn't blame Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Asus, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Intel, I.B.M., Lenovo, Microsoft, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Sony or Vizio? It's so attention-grabbing to blame Apple, even though, as far as I know, Apple is the only one among these companies to have even expressed concern about these issues.
Here's the real problem: The Chinese government is determined to dominate electronics manufacture and, as the article illustrates, is willing to go to what we would consider outlandish lengths to succeed. Don't fool yourself that low labor costs is the only reason companies source from China. Chinese companies, Foxconn included, are second to none in electronics expertise and manufacturing quality. That's why virtually every well-known brand is built there. Fix that and maybe consumers would pay a little more for more expensive labor. Maybe not. Don't fix that and there's really no question: no consumer will pay more for crappy products.
I think you are giving Apple a bit too much credit. Apple is not teaching the Chinese how to be ethical. Apple is not revolutionizing manufacturing in China.
Apple is using a Chinese manufacturing company and giving them a lot of business. A LOTTTTT of business. This is a good thing.
But you can't go from there to claim that Apple is somehow teaching the poor Chinese, who are incapable of ethical action. It sounds very insulting the way you put it :(
I do wholeheartedly agree with the statement that the peculiar focus on Apple for Foxconn's bad working conditions is very strange. It's not like Foxconn is the only manufacturing company, nor is Apple their only customer.
Not true, I said I would used an alternative to Apple if all tech companies did not produce computers in similar or worse factories. The bulk of the blame, not all of the blame, has to fall on Chinese government. The government is in the business of protecting it's people from foreign dangers. These multinational companies are allowing things to happen to foreigners (the chinese people) that would be illegal in their home nation. The Chinese government has the bulk of the blame because Chinese government approved these companies, the Chinese Government approves of every single foreign entity, it's not hands off. Immediately the abuses would stop if the Chinese government ordered it to. The Government can not protect it's own people from foreign harm, (foxxcon is not a Chinese company) then that Government should be blamed. No China is not using its power to stop this because if it did it won't happen on such a large scale. Moreover I never said American workers are not exploited, it happens, but what is happening in China is far worse.
Corporate greed is always about blind outsourcing. You get the savings and you don't care how you get them. I have no doubt that Apple is capable of manufacturing their own devices. They chose not to. If workers were getting treated like crap, Apple is to blame. period.
I'm not saying don't make stuff in China, I'm saying we can be good employers in China and set a standard by treating employees like we would expect NA employees to be treated, with respect and dignity.
Apple pays its employees much better than what they would have been paid working at something else. That's why people flock there for a chance to work. My parents and grandparents are those exact people that would have had a much better quality of life if they had been given a chance to work at places like Foxconn. Luckily, they were able to escape China.
If you are so against it all (basic economics, the history of the world, etc), then don't buy products from Apple or any other company that uses Chinese manufacturing.
Apple has done far more for people than what you will ever do and you have the audacity to critique them. Do you not comprehend the arrogance of your statements?
I agree with you about linking Apple and Chinese. When I think of the Apple labor force I automatically think Foxconn, which leads to thoughts of labour camps and worker suicide, not that that's the whole picture of course.
I'm not an Apple fan, probably more of an Apple hater, but why is Apple the bad guy for seeking cheaper labor? Why is it the consumers problem that China allows it's citizens to be treated like shit? Why is this ethical responsibility somehow always offloaded to the consumer?
Every company makes stuff in China, but not under the massive pressure that Apple's big-bang marketing puts them under, where workers are forced to deliver many millions of devices in the shortest possible time.
It was Apple production lines that were driving suicides, and hence the nets round Foxconn dorms.
Pegatron has had Chinese workers doing 90-100 hours a week, sometimes more, just so Apple fanboys can get their fancy new toys without the massive loss of kudos that waiting a month would cost them.
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/107
And Apple workers do not get a living wage, according to China Labor Watch, even though -- as I stated correctly -- Apple is making a billion dollars a week in profits and has more than $200 billion in cash.
Of course, this isn't brutal capitalist exploitation.
The problem is that we are slowly losing our specialization. China is learning how to manufacture better than us. Then they learn how to assemble better than us, they copy + improve.
China could destroy Apple in a heartbeat by ordering FoxConn to charge a much higher premium for Apple phones than their own local brand.
THIS. This is my biggest problem with this entire issue. It is ALWAYS reported as an Apple problem, when in reality
(i) There is no evidence presented that Apple is doing something other companies are not doing.
(ii) The reasons for these working conditions are pretty well known: (1) China is still a relatively poor country (2) Electronics customers are very price conscious - you can't compete if your costs aren't low.
I think it's fine to pressure large companies to improve working conditions (even if it leads to higher prices) - but I have not seen the reason why Apple got almost all the scrutiny on this issue.
Apple is the most successful business in history. They have literally billions of dollars in the bank. The fact that they have reached this position by exploiting international labor conditions is dissonant with the glowing opinion of them in the American press. It is seen as hypocritical.
From your tone, I infer that you think you may agree - but that you feel conflict, and conceal that from yourself by lashing out at the messenger.
It is not a valid excuse to say they're Chinese, any more than it is valid to allow West Virginian mine workers to die of black lung to provide cheap heat for Philadelphia.
Injustice doesn't have to be in your own street for it to be injustice.
You're constructing a narrative that puts history on its head. China has allowed foreign firms to come in and exploit cheap Chinese labor. Foreign companies have made enormous profits off of this. Not only do companies like Apple benefit hugely from Chinese labor, but they have also found a market of hundreds of millions of buyers of their product there. Foreign auto manufacturers dominate the Chinese domestic market - VW is the best-selling car brand in China, the world's largest auto market.
You're saying that China has been retaliating by giving foreign companies access to cheap labor and hundreds of millions of customers. That's completely backwards.
It's not just that the labour is cheap. The manufacturing in China is far more integrated and nimble than it is in America. China is winning on more than just price.
No one forced Apple to ship production to China. It was well understood what was going to happen before they did it and they did it anyway. It's hard for me to have any sympathy for their current position. Business is ruthless and Apple knows it. Apple has a long history of crushing small suppliers to their own advantage so it's not like their hands are clean in all of this.
I don't mind being price gouged, I can afford it, but Apple no longer makes laptops suitable for me.
Employers have been threatening and actively trying to outsource my employment overseas my entire adult life. This drove a lot of people out of the software industry. I made the bet that they would be less successful than they planned. Now I gouge them for access to my rare skills - a problem they created. I could easily have been wrong and if that happened these companies would have not supported me out the goodness of their heart.
"claim that Apple is somehow teaching the poor Chinese, who are incapable of ethical action. It sounds very insulting the way you put it :("
China is a country that only liberalized and allowed capitalism a few decades ago. It has started from communist rule down a path to where now it is a world manufacturing powerhouse.
It is not an insult to say that in doing so, Chinese manufacturers learned a lot, and that Apple's partnership with foxconn (Which is a legit partnership, not just Apple picking the lowest bidder as people assume) did involve a lot of such education. This is not an insult to the chinese, in fact, it is a testament to the wisdom of the guy who founded Foxxconn, as I believe it is this partnership that has allowed him to grow as fast as he has and be as successful.
Apple's relationship with Foxcon involves Apple owning hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment in their plants, that Apple bought and paid for and that Hon Hai uses to manufacture Apple products. This is an investment in Hon Hai as well as a leg up to them, and is merely the physical analog to the intellectual side of the relationship.
I misuse the word "ethical" in my post, and I should have avoided it completely. I certainly didn't mean to imply the chinese are unethical, or that their working conditions lacked ethics. Actually, on the contrary, I think their work ethic is superior to the american one.
I believe that Hon Hai put up with more requirements from apple, and gave apple a good price, in exchange for apple helping to modernize their manufacturing processes their quality control processes, etc.
Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple.
Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or contracts with Chinese companies are not only profitable (that is the main -if not only- reason) but good for China, the Chinese company, the Chinese workers, the non-Chinese company and the end user.
Because I guess, we are exploiting the workers in a country with a dictatorship just to get cheap gadgets, toys and such.
And yes, I would say Apple is a bit to be blamed for this. Not that Apple were aware or that Apple would approve these (I'm 100% sure it doesn't) actions.
But, if this Chinese company -and others- keep their contracts with American or European companies although things like keep happening (At least we know about this case! How many of them have happened?)... they (the 'first world companies') will become (if they are not already) part of the problem.
ps. Sorry for my English (I'm from Spain and well...)
Apple has repeatedly said that it’s not China’s cheaper labor. They don’t have as cheap labor anymore, especially compared to India, Vietnam, Philippines, etc. they say it’s because of the complex specialized knowledge of suppliers around Shenzhen and I’m inclined to believe them. You can choose to not trust them.
Haha. As I said, you need to do more research. You could start with China Labor Watch. You'd also do better if you approached this with an open mind.
> They moved production from Foxconn exactly because of these faults.
Love to see your evidence for that, if there is any.
> ignored evidence that Apple has done more than either company to raise the standards at these factories
Depends how you measure it. Apple makes the most money and, because it needs to maintain a false image, it has the most to lose. However, it's been aware of child labor since 2008, if not earlier. It must also be aware that companies engineer around its guidelines, so they are more of a PR stunt than anything else.
A hugely rich company like Apple could certainly make a difference if it were serious. Pity it isn't.
If I have the opportunity to buy something not made in China, I will take it. Unfortunately, it's essentially impossible to buy any consumer electronics not made there.
The set of things you can buy these days that isn't made in China is essentially restricted to luxury goods and safety-critical equipment (cars, guns, scuba gear, etc.); despite what they tend to say out loud, companies know that it's prohibitively expensive to get safety-critical reliability out of Chinese manufacturing. But if it's just your camera or power drill or whatever, they know you're not going to sue them when it breaks. Apple actually does a really good job on QC for Chinese manufacturing, but then you have all these accusations of forced labor to contend with.
No, you are not attacking, but you really do not understand. Let me ask you a question. If Apple is assembling the iPhones in India, do you think the work condition is much better than that of Foxconn? And do you know that Foxconn is a Taiwanese company? Yes the Chinese government has their goals. They are corrupted and they do not care much about people. But, it's great they can offer great jobs to farmers assembling iPhones. Even though the work condition is so bad according to your standard.
How come this blistering expose of Chinese labor practices didn't blame Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Asus, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Intel, I.B.M., Lenovo, Microsoft, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Sony or Vizio? It's so attention-grabbing to blame Apple, even though, as far as I know, Apple is the only one among these companies to have even expressed concern about these issues.
Here's the real problem: The Chinese government is determined to dominate electronics manufacture and, as the article illustrates, is willing to go to what we would consider outlandish lengths to succeed. Don't fool yourself that low labor costs is the only reason companies source from China. Chinese companies, Foxconn included, are second to none in electronics expertise and manufacturing quality. That's why virtually every well-known brand is built there. Fix that and maybe consumers would pay a little more for more expensive labor. Maybe not. Don't fix that and there's really no question: no consumer will pay more for crappy products.
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