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“So what looks like a horrific disease may be the horrific tip of a very large iceberg”

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/beast-moving-very-fa...



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> The virus is mutating but it is also losing its lethal nature.

In one of the first articles I read on covid, in Feb 2020, the experts stated that they expected this to become endemic, either like the other common cold coronaviruses, or something a bit worse like the flu [0]:

> I think there is a reasonable probability that this becomes the fifth community-acquired coronavirus... settling down to something like the other four coronaviruses.

> What we may be seeing “is the emergence of a new coronavirus … that could very well become another seasonal pathogen that causes pneumonia,” said infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm of the University of Minnesota. It would be “more than a cold” and less than SARS: “The only other pathogen I can compare it to is seasonal influenza.”

This has probably happened before. The Russian Flu epidemic of 1889-1890. It looks like it was a coronavirus that jumped from cattle to people. That pandemic was one of the deadliest of that century. Now that same virus is one of our common cold bugs [1].

[0] https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-cor...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_coronavirus_OC43



> Moritz already knows something about Corona.

> "The virus comes from China and from there it spread over the entire world", he says. "When you get infected, you can get a strong cough and fever. Sometimes also the lung gets sick, so that you can't breath well anymore."

https://imgur.com/a/fyB8CnE



>this virus is everywhere now

It has probably been everywhere for a long time. The point of the article is that coronaviruses jumping to humans is something that happens fairly often.


I believe this article is saying that the coronavirus strain is not going to be contained. It will wend its way through the populace regardless of masks or lockdowns or cures.

>Or it could be like the flu, and mutate / continue indefinitely.

I gather that is unlikely, coronaviruses don't mutate like the flu.

In fact, according to experts, it is most likely that this coronavirus will decrease in severity over time and become endemic like the other several coronaviruses that are responsible for 15% of common colds. Or, alternatively, occasionally returning like a bad flu year. https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-cor...

I remember reading in other places this may have happened before, something about a really bad flu year in the 1870's that may have been another coronavirus introducing itself to humanity.


It looks like a coronavirus


Here is the post for those who don’t want to follow the link.

Like nearly everyone on the planet I am worried about COVID-19. SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) appears to be killing between 1% to 3.5% of the people it infects and has a R0 (i.e. how many new people each person infected goes onto infect) of between 2.5 to 3.9. Left to run wild, the virus will likely kill tens of millions of people worldwide.

The governments of the world have implemented strict population isolation protocols to try and limit the spread of the virus, but the economic cost of this is extremely high. A vaccine for COVID-19 is 12 to 18 months away (at best).

We are stuck in a diabolic situation where the only way to prevent the economy sliding into a slump deeper than the Great Depression is to consign many tens of millions of people to an early grave. Is there a way out?

SARS-Cov-2 Viral Diversity

SARS-CoV-2 like all viruses mutates (changes) overtime. Many of these genetic changes are small (single nucleotides) that are not important to the replications or transmission of the virus from person to person, but they can be used to identify the origin of the virus. DeCODE genetics has been testing Icelanders for COVID-19 and genome sequencing the SARS-CoV-2 strains isolated. They have found two very important pieces of information:

1. More than 50% of the people infected with SARS-CoV-19 are asymptomatic (i.e. they have no illness). 2. They can identify the geographical origin of the strains by the genetic differences (mutations) between the different strains.

This data suggests a simple and testable hypothesis – there are natural strains of SARS-CoV-2 in the world that have mutated to be non-pathogenic (asymptomatic), but are still infective and will provide immunity to the more pathogenic (deadly) strains.

If we can find one of these non-pathogenic viral strains out in the wild we could give it to everyone in the world and solve our diabolic problem. This non-pathogenic strain would act much like the live attenuated (oral) polio vaccine.

How do we find the attenuated SARS-CoV-2 strains?

This hypothesis is worthless if we have no way of finding any of these non-pathogenic SARS-CoV-2 viral strains. Luckily there is a quick and cheap way to find these strains if they exist – test asymptomatic people for COVID-19 and then genome sequence the SARS-CoV-2 strain that has infected them with the aim of identifying a virus with mutation(s) in an essential viral gene(s). This approach is cheap (a couple of hundreds of dollars a virus strain) and quick (a week or less). With almost no effort or cost we could sequence a few thousand viral strains from asymptomatic people until we find a virus strain with the right mutations to make it harmless and which is in effect an attenuated vaccine. We would know that this strain can still reproduce in people and lead to immunity, but not make people seriously ill.

What viral mutations are we looking for in a good non-pathogenic viral strain?

We would ideally be looking for a virus strain with a large(ish) deletion in an essential viral gene. This sort of mutation is easy to spot in the SARS-CoV-2 genome data, and because the genetic information has been removed, it makes the virus very unlikely to be able to mutate back into a dangerous strain. Ideally, the strain identified will have infected a number of other people in the local area too so we can know it is safe.

Has this ever been done before?

Yes. The polio, measles, rubella, mumps, and chicken pox vaccines are all live attenuated viruses. Even something as dangerous as smallpox was controlled in the 18th century using a variation of this idea called Variolation. The idea was the doctor would deliberately infect you with a less harmful strain of smallpox to make you immune to the more deadly strains of smallpox. Of course, they didn’t know how this approach worked in the 18th century, but it was still very effective and millions of people were saved from dying from smallpox by it.

What are the risks?

The major risk is the virus we think is safe is not 100% safe. While we can use community spread of the identified strain to estimate how safe it will be (i.e. if it has infected 1000 people and none have got seriously ill then we should have a pretty good idea that it is safe), but our knowledge will be incomplete. We can of course spend the next few years testing and trialling, but if we do this by the time any strain is shown to be 99.999% safe (not even the polio vaccine is 100% safe) we will have all got COVID-19 and the world’s economy will be a smoking ruin.

We have a choice of taking some small risk now, or face the certainty of a much worse problem later. Time to accept some risk and do something.

Q & A

I have been getting a few questions on this post so I thought I would address them here.

How do you know there is an attenuated viral strain out there?

I don’t. I am hypothesising that there is one (or more) based on the known mutation rate of coronaviruses and the number of cases. Coronaviruses mutate continuously (this is why companies like deCODE can tell the geographical origin of different strains) as the molecular machinery for replicating their RNA genome is not very accurate. When you combine this with the millions of mild cases out in the world, the odds are on our side that there is at least one person infected with a strain that has a mutation that makes the virus less dangerous (attenuated). We just need to look for this strain – luckily the tools we need to use (genome sequencing) are now cheap and quick. What would have been impossible 20 years ago can now be done in a week.

Aren’t most people who have mild/asymptomatic cases infected with the dangerous strain?

Yes. Almost all (>99.9%) of people who are infected (and have a mild case) are infected with a dangerous strain of the virus, they just happen to have an immune system that can control the virus well. With COVID-19 a mild case does not mean you are infected with an attenuated strain – for most people with a mild case if they happen to infect a person with preexisting conditions or who is old, that person will be at a high risk of dying. A mild case does not equal a harmless strain.

My argument is coming from the other direction. While almost all mild cases of COVID-19 are caused by a dangerous strain of SARS-CoV-2, an attenuated strain of SARS-CoV-2 will only cause mild disease. If you want to find an attenuated strain you need to look at mild cases even though >99.9% of the people you check will be infected with a dangerous strain. What we want to find is one of the rare natural viral mutants that is attenuated. Where you will find such a mutant is in people with a mild form of the disease.

Can’t we just wait for the vaccine?

No. Apart from the time it will take to develop, trial, and mass produce a vaccine (12-18 months), it is unlikely that any vaccine will be practicable. The reason why is immunity to respiratory viruses (like corona) doesn’t last long – 6 months to 2 years. We would have to keep vaccinating everyone in the world every year (or maybe every 6 months if we are unlucky). This just isn’t going to work in the real world (especially poor countries) and is one of the reasons we don’t have a vaccine for the coronavirus strains that cause the common cold. Unless we can drive the current dangerous SARS-CoV-2 strains to extinction we are going to have a problem with this disease indefinitely.

Isn’t social distancing and quarantining solving the problem?

Yes and no. Yes countries like South Korea and Australia have shown that through mass screening and social distancing you can keep a lid on the disease, but this leaves the population susceptible to a new outbreak. Singapore and Japan have recently seen this in action where they eased restrictions and found the disease came back and they had to reintroduce restrictions. I don’t think many people want to live for years with cycles of restrictions, easings and further outbreaks.

Wouldn’t the use of such an attenuated strain just be a vaccine?

Yes in one way, but it is a little more subtle. Assuming we can find an attenuated strain, then how to best use it a separate question. Giving it deliberately to lots of people would change the ecosystem for the dangerous strains of the virus. The dangerous strains would find it dificult to spread through the community as many (most) people would have already been infected (and hence immune) with the attenuated strain. Overtime the dangerous strains would become rarer, and the attenuated strains more common, until eventually the dangerous strains would go extinct and we would just be left with the mild version. While we would not be able to get rid of this mild strain, it would just be another of the hundreds of viruses out there causing common colds. The idea is at its base is really to replace the dangerous strains with a less dangerous strain that we can live with.


Quoting Chise on Twitter

> May I make a suggestion. This isn’t new. The preprint just got uploaded like two days ago but that’s it. If anyone does a Google search they’ll see this pops up as early as October/November https://deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/11/16/22785162/new-covi... and hasn’t done much. Omicron kinda blew this out of the water.

Source: https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/147700529740319129...


Where did you see that? I have not seen anything like that reported and I feel like that would be pretty important information https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/as-coronavirus-spreads-m...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-peop...

Not sure how "widely" shared it is, but it's a good, informative piece.


> which is one of many coronaviruses.

There's only like 7 coronaviruses that have been discovered to infect a human. Three of which are SARS, MERS, and COVID19.

Its pretty novel, all else considered.


From the CDC

> However, it is important to note that current global circumstances suggest it is likely that this virus will cause a pandemic.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/summary.html#risk-...


The first three words of the article are "the coronavirus epidemic"...

I don't think there's anything hidden about this


> I think we more specifically know something emerged that was much more deadly and contagious around January/February.

This is from late last year, an article that attempted to group the mutations into "L", "G", "S", "O", etc, strains: https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/EVOLUTION/yx...

You can see where it compares infections to proportion of strain that they only spiked when "L" disappeared and one or more of the "G" ones became dominant. There's only 7 countries listed here, but I think I remember a different article that had more, and the pattern was pretty consistent.


It's an article about covid-19

I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually Covid. We know it can jump multiple species and that people have been known to collapse all of a sudden.
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