For once I find myself in complete agreement with you.
The only reason I have sympathy for Apple in this situation is that at the time they began their investment in China, the US and the West in general believed that China was on a path to liberalization and genuinely wanted to support them as a global ally.
It’s not going to be easy to disentangle from that.
Yes, I agree. That makes Apple completely beholden to the CCP. If they anger the CCP, their whole business is gone.
But I fail to see how that makes any of this more acceptable. They had 15 years to diversify. They didn't, but chose to instead spent that time just becoming more involved with a brutal autocracy, gambling their whole company on it.
It was stupid (one of the rare strategic missteps by Apple), it was amoral, and somehow still this is seen as being totally fine while Google toying around with launching a single product in China but not doing it was quoted as evidence of them being evil in this very thread. And I kind of feel like your reply reinforces that point.
I believe giving into China was a mistake for Apple executives ethically, commercially and politically.
In the long term they’ll be forced to give up all the commercial surpluses to local mega apps by the government, and the political/ethical problems require no elaboration.
Even disregarding the human rights violations and lack of labor protection, there are fundamental problems with Apple's relationship with China. This isn't a business decision we're talking about, this is a domestic supercorporation using China as a crutch. America turns the other eye because tax money spends well, but the PRC keeps our highest-valued public company on a leash. That's... fucked up, considering the politics of the situation.
If you think the leash doesn't hurt and China is liable to be friendly towards America, that's your moral crusade. In my opinion, things have already gone too far.
China has been an incredibly reliable partner to Apple.
They were looking to expand that relationship before the US government shut it down. They wouldn't have been planning that if it was going poorly.
Companies are relocating out of China for cost and for political risk of further US decoupling. China itself (apart from rising costs) isn't really the entity causing this despite what the narrative may sound from US media.
I'm located in Thailand and my friends are running companies that are on the beneficial end of this migration. It's actually been tough going because atleast for manufacturing the infrastructure isn't really here outside of the auto industry (which is dominated by local factories of Japanese brands).
We will see though, I anticipate that much of this will blow over in time, a new status quo will be reached with China that might see their share of exports to the US decline somewhat but total decoupling is unlikely as it would split the world in half.
China does not need Apple, in fact there would be significant benefit to Apple exiting China.
More power, more control for the CCP.
China has the capacity to do very serious damage to Apple, potentially even put the company at risk if they acted quickly and with malice.
This is a completely one-sided relationship.
"the parties are aware of their relative power and influence and act accordingly..." Agreed. In China Apple does what the CCP wants.
Not a "complex power dynamic" IMO.
I may be "expressing dismay in a way that is too blunt to be useful to many people here".
In return I think you are expressing very little beyond obsfucation and misdirection which I don't find particularly useful either.
Lastly I'd like to offer you some unsolicited advice in return. Please try not to be so condescending when dealing with others if you want them to respond positively.
No one forced Apple to ship production to China. It was well understood what was going to happen before they did it and they did it anyway. It's hard for me to have any sympathy for their current position. Business is ruthless and Apple knows it. Apple has a long history of crushing small suppliers to their own advantage so it's not like their hands are clean in all of this.
I don't mind being price gouged, I can afford it, but Apple no longer makes laptops suitable for me.
Employers have been threatening and actively trying to outsource my employment overseas my entire adult life. This drove a lot of people out of the software industry. I made the bet that they would be less successful than they planned. Now I gouge them for access to my rare skills - a problem they created. I could easily have been wrong and if that happened these companies would have not supported me out the goodness of their heart.
Disclaimer: i'm a Mac user and have nothing against Apple.
Said that I guess we (and the companies) should start thinking if this kind of 'collaboration' or contracts with Chinese companies are not only profitable (that is the main -if not only- reason) but good for China, the Chinese company, the Chinese workers, the non-Chinese company and the end user.
Because I guess, we are exploiting the workers in a country with a dictatorship just to get cheap gadgets, toys and such.
And yes, I would say Apple is a bit to be blamed for this. Not that Apple were aware or that Apple would approve these (I'm 100% sure it doesn't) actions.
But, if this Chinese company -and others- keep their contracts with American or European companies although things like keep happening (At least we know about this case! How many of them have happened?)... they (the 'first world companies') will become (if they are not already) part of the problem.
ps. Sorry for my English (I'm from Spain and well...)
So, we should feel safe knowing that Apple is protecting us from the wrong governments and working with the right ones? Considering how attached they are to the Chinese market, one would be forgiven for assuming Apple too is motivated by money over ethical responsibility.
That is not a reasonable criticism. However, Apple is far from the good guy. Look at all the pro China things they have done. People committing suicide after being forced to work endlessly. Agreeing to the Great Firewall rules to continue doing business in China. I'm sure it is similar in other countries too. We know the people who make nearly everything we buy are treated not much better than slaves. It is not just China, look at the Nabisco workers, look at the meat processing plants. And largely we don't care. There is no reason extreme pressure couldn't start to force changes at these companies but mostly we are just glad it isn't us. Our whole society has lost all sense of empathy and it is sad.
Apple has spent many years happily profiting from cheap Chinese manufacturing, labor, electrial engineering expertise and supply chains to the point where they are now completely beholden to a foreign country. A country whose increasing rivalry with the US in economic power and geopolitical influence (along with increased tensions) has been clear for well over a decade.
Apple is diversifying a bit into India and elsewhere, but China could throw Apple into a huge crisis tomorrow if they were cut off, since it would take years to ramp up capacity elsewhere, and sourcing many of the components would be next to impossible.
And Apple really couldn't blame anyone but themselves for it.
It also seems to me like the are diversifying more because India demanded it and for price, rather than tho reduce dependencies ok China. But that's just unqualified guesswork.
It's also in bed with the US, a huge flaw for us in China.
I mean, there are dark forces at the top here, which probably will misuse any kind of dominant position, but it's not like the US has our best interests at heart either.
As for Apple, now they have to play nice with a 300+ M people direct market in the US + all the allies they can sort of bully into segregation against us, vs a 1.3bn (and trending down) direct market in China + very few allies who'd be rich enough to afford Apple products.
I wouldn't blame Apple for cutting itself in half to work with both side of this artificial competition both our rulers decided they should have to defend our respective precious "national security" (which I'd rather call national distraction but heh).
So what do you want Apple to do? Leave the China market and allow a government owned phone company to take the market share? How is that scenario better for anyone in the US or China?
I mean being angry that the Chinese government isn't great at human rights is one thing, but to point that anger at Apple is a bit misguided, and what do you suggest that would actually make the problem better?
That's the entire point. Even if Apple was going to be able to go somewhere else (India, US, etc.), it wouldn't hurt China much if every other tech company maintains course and/or doubles down on China. Unless China is hurt economically by their actions, nothing will change.
The only reason I have sympathy for Apple in this situation is that at the time they began their investment in China, the US and the West in general believed that China was on a path to liberalization and genuinely wanted to support them as a global ally.
It’s not going to be easy to disentangle from that.
reply