What I always wonder about with every Apple story on HN is if all the sycophants are just willing fanboys or if PR types are being paid to work HN comments.
Oh God. I can't read HN comments on Apple anymore. It's mostly just two sides throwing well polished turds on each other. Of course it is better than throwing shit like on other sites but the end result is the same.
My only point is I prefer HN without meta-talk about karma and comment scores. Your disclaimer paragraphs probably do nothing to soothe the apple fanboys and can be annoying to those who actually agree with you. (Enough with the meta from my part)
Arguing with the faceless Apple executives via the internet is wishful thinking, whether you succeed or not.
Also, you don't downvote comments because you consider them wrong or refuted, you downvote because a comment was not beneficial to the discussion. It's people like you that slowly chip away at what HN is intended to be.
I guess you're right. I usually dislike such topics, but I have kind of a soft spot for Apple (not as a company, but as what they supposedly stand for: simplicity, unification of hardware and software, trying to deliver an experience rather than a product) and find these stories interesting.
But you're right: HN is not the place for such discussions. I'll refrain from posting anything like this again.
Find a place on the internet where discussion of Apple doesn't erupt into controversy. I also disagree with the sentiment that something needs to be done to fix civility on HN. This entire meta-discussion is a self correcting mechanism in action, we'll see a wave of civility for a week and then things will go back to normal.
Fuck Apple and iPhone. I don't care about it and I don't want to read about it. Apparently most people on HN agree. Now you can kick and scream or read other site. It is just how it is.
> and is entirely argumentative speculation with no real benefit to the discussion.
Like a chat by the water-cooler you mean. I would love more Snowdens and leaked documents to come out. Unfortunately there aren't at the moment, so we are left discussing what is there. Talking about the future, the implication to US businesses, implication to what it means for this country, the Constitution, privacy, and so on.
I understand that is not interesting for most people, especially non-Americans. Well c'est la vie, a good majority of HNers are Americans.
The rage and indignation about this is quite strong (and it should be so). These revelations, have shattered the perceptions many have been brought up and believed in for most part of their lives. It is hard to deal with that so well you get lots of discussion.
You have the downvote button, click it if you don't like the topic. But stomping your feet about hoping maybe moderators will notice and will start pushing Apple related stories higher might not work.
It's remarkable how overwhelmingly negative the comments on HN are to everything Apple does. The top comment is always some "this is the final straw...I'm leaving the platform" screed (if you look back, those people have usually made that declaration a dozen times), and everyone who claims anything contrary is pushed to transparent.
HN needs to go out and take a walk and get some perspective. What a bunch of sour assholes.
For whatever reason, HN is completely uncritical of anything Apple does. It has gotten to the point that _/r/apple_ tends to have a richer debate about the companies actions. It's a side effect of the lack of subreddit equivalents IMO.
> Confirmation bias turning HN into an anti-Apple echo chamber of niche, subjective rants is really getting old (...and it's not even been a week).
Oh come on, HN is one of the most pro-Apple communities around. That still doesn't mean people can't criticise them when they do something they don't like.
Don't bother posting such comments here, HN is known for having a whole bunch of Apple fanboys who will mercilessly mod down any valid criticism so that it's grayed out while fawning posts and posts critical of other companies get modded up to the sky. Notice how there is no other analysis of this news on the front page. They HAVE to feel justified about their choice and Gruber just tells them what they want to hear. There have been a few HN'ers who quit HN in disgust because of this cavaliier attitude. (bye bye karma)
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