I don't think there's such a thing as an "American society" anymore. Or, for that matter, an "American nation".
I remember back in 2016, when all the Trump/Putin brouhaha first started making rounds, one staunch right-winger whom I know said something along the lines of, "if Putin helps him hang all our traitors and clean the trash out like he did in Russia, I'm all for it".
I was going to say the same thing as your first point. Parent poster 'csallen' is embracing the exact behavior he/she objects to. There's apparently a clear line of good and evil, and csallen can tell us exactly where that like is. We wouldn't know because we're brainwashed zombies who get our information from the nightly news.
Since the internet, hopefully the average person is getting more information, and appreciates the depth of issues and history not to be so black and white on these matters.
With all this protesting about Trump, I was very surprised to hear him admit that America is no better than the "killers" like Putin. Has a president ever admitted to such a thing? He just comes out and says it. I'm surprised that didn't get talked about more.. perhaps it was.
"You think our country is so innocent?... A lot of Killers around believe me".
America would be a better place if it had more people furious that America is turning into Russia, and fewer people trying to justify that it's not quite as bad.
American culture is becoming so sad, especially when compared to what it used to be. Now everyone might turn each other in for suspecting they are terrorists. It reminds me of the communist days when people turned each other in for speaking against the Party or the President. Such culture is a lot harder to remove than one single tyrant. Very sad.
That's a popular take, but I don't know how much it holds water.
What really does seem to be the sad, sad reality is that America needs external enemies or else it feeds on itself. Since the fall of the USSR politics have gotten steadily nastier, but all the sudden people are finding lots of common ground in solitary against the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
But will that solidarity last more than a few news cycles?
Is it just me or at this point Americans will do anything for profit? The last American with moral standard is currently living in exile in Russia. Lori Stroud is a disgrace, who after all these, she basically became a mercenary attempting to justify her disgraceful actions. What a time to be alive, so first we have 911 that changed the lives online and offline as we know it. Then we have never ending wars that costed lives around the world, topping that with a global surveillance machine with a rapacious appetite for private information. These behaviors are far from the American values preached everyday by the left and right. It’s time to look in the mirror.
"Many of us grew up believing we as Americans are exceptional, that we are inherently the good guys in any international conflict."
Sounds like the USSR, only that we get rid of this delusion almost 30 years ago.
Now it's slowly coming back thanks to the Russian government's propaganda, but it is still far from the present US level.
Revoking my vote is the very opposite of the spirit of American democracy. The biggest problem America faces is the rise of collectivism (and also Fascism from the right). California leading the pack. I didn't come to America to be part of a socialist nation which wants equality of outcome. The strength of USA, and I would say uniquely, is in individualism, freedom, rights and its core founding principles.
This is probably the most offensive thing you can say to anyone. It is so strange to see young generation of this place veering towards Autoritarian socialist nation. We've seen how that turns out (North vs South Korea, Cambodia, USSR, Cuba). Universities in the US is the hotbed for this non-sense.
Regarding reparations, Russia paying reparations after the war to Ukraine? Probably OK. Woke Russians 600 years later telling the new generation to feel guilty about what Putin did 6 centuries ago? NOT OK.
It's one of the most right wing places I've seen lately. According to the HN Eng elite every country should be completely seperated from each other. Globalism completely destroyed. America should only employ Americans. America should produce everything domestically only etc etc.
Quite sickening to see where the country is going with Murdoch, Putins as well as other state actors pushing the US into a civil war about right vs left. I have lost most hope about the future of the country.
Sad to see how the xenophobic blame-the-foreigner-for-all-my-ills attitude has permeated HN too.
"Simply put Americans don't seem to care very much about other Americans."
You hit the nail on the head. What else do you expect from a society that won't even provide the option of healthcare to its citizens, that has massive industries whose sole purpose is to profit off the sickness and death of others, and that incarcerates over two million people at any given time, many for ordinary, everyday activities or mental health problems? It's a reflection of the people and many of the people are stupid, cruel, hateful, and puritanical to the point that they will do anything within their power to stop others from enjoying life. For example, the next time you hear someone talking about something they don't want their tax dollars going to, listen carefully to what they're saying. Rarely will it be the unjust wars we fight or other horrors like that, and often it will be others' well being and health. Or just talk to any Trump supporter (or almost any Republican at this point).
"In such moments one feels pride with our country and regret over the course taken by United States -- a country betraying the principles it was once built on,"
Even Russians get it... Why don't more Americans get it?
This is one of the most outrageous things I've seen in a while. I really think the academic institutions are hammering the last nails into America's coffin.
America is a failed state, the majority of Americans just don't know it yet. The founding mythos, and ideological bedrock of America has been replaced by something toxic and subversive. The ideological upheaval of the last few years has left behind a broken and confused country. One that will inevitably fracture into smaller parts, or devolve unequivocally into a mess like South Africa. If you go to the former USSR (for one example), you can see monuments to the country's tenacity in the face of absolute peril. Statues, monuments, and architecture which proudly memorialise their heroes, and their history. Meanwhile, delinquents in America have been tearing down any statue or monument with a European-sounding name. America will end up a country with no history, and no future.
The "everyone fend for themselves" trope of American in my opinion is only perceived this way due to a concerted effort by Libertarians and Conservatives to push this thinking, and during periods where those views have power (such as now) it becomes even more engrained that this is "America" and further fuels efforts to remove those social nets and other social connectivity that was promoted and emphasized during periods of increased interconnectivity (ex. Obama - Public Service, Healthcare, Living Wages, Consumer Protection, Environment, Battery and Clean Energy foundations, Net neutrality, Auto-rescue, open government data, LGBTQ).
As long as we remember and push against this false "fend for themselves", it need not become America.
Americans hating Americans is part of our culture. There were people who didn't want to leave England. 100 years later, half the country up and split off and both sides went and killed each other trying to decide who was right. Then 100 years after that, half the country freaked out about the mere concept of equal rights for all and the North-South/Dem-Rep/urban-rural divide became solidified once more and hasn't really changed to this day.
I find it hard to blame it all on a few paid Russians commenting on twitter or reddit. If a few guys can get paid to completely divide a nation of 300+million through internet comments, either they're the most persuasive people to ever exist, or the divide was already there. It's not even hard just to read some American news and see how literally every single site that covers mainstream events or political topics makes every single thing into an us vs. them situation. There's no escaping it, and it drives clicks, so there's no motivation to stop.
And it's absolutely bizarre how certain parts of the internet are absolutely flooded with hatred for Russians as a whole, with someone always coming in to scream about them. It reminds me of hearing people's ramblings after 9/11, except this time it's primarily "young and informed" individuals.
Americans didn't need the Russians to turn against one another. I have been here since 2000 and I am still amazed how vicious a lot of campaign ads are and how much a lot of people have bought into the mindset that the "other side" liberals/conservatives is basically evil.
The American system did this to itself. The Russians are just a little sideshow.
I only upvoted to read the comments. I don't really think that the state of american public opinion is due to KGB subversion. I think it's because of the normal culture rot happening to any nation. In US's case the rot looks so dramatic because it's the most powerfull and rich nation in the world.
Sadly, I have less faith in my fellow Americans. I think Trump has proven that a sizable portion of America is happy to embrace "America first." A sizable portion of America is even unphased by policies that will kill tens of thousands of fellow Americans, we are now learning with COVID-19.
America is beginning its decline, there's no question. I think you're worried about the wrong things, but that's simply a matter of opinion.
Thankfully, we're nowhere near the insanity of 40s-50s Soviet Russia. Here, we have a right to freedom of speech, and at least ostensibly a right to bear arms. Hopefully we can maintain those rights and avoid the hellish police state phase of the collapse.
Americans generally don’t want to hear that our influence globally has been replaced by a combination of deference to autocratic regimes (the whole Russia / Turkey / Syria situation) or direct antagonism of rising powers (China, Iran).
I think Trump’s legacy will be as the symbol of American decline. He represents a hollowing out of core institutions that started long before him, but his presidency will be remembered as the time when the world realized American hegemony was over.
I've never felt less American than I do right now. The country that voted for a man who has been recorded stating that he sexually assaults women is not a country in which I want to live.
I remember back in 2016, when all the Trump/Putin brouhaha first started making rounds, one staunch right-winger whom I know said something along the lines of, "if Putin helps him hang all our traitors and clean the trash out like he did in Russia, I'm all for it".
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