That said PHP gets a lot of undeserved flak and also even if it is not the best tool for everything, - if you end up using it you definitely should know how to use it to your avantage.
[1]: Java is so nice and low ceremony these days and even .Net can now update dependencies without running exe files and clicking next-next-agree-next and I also prefer typed languages a lot.
Isn't it just not that popular an option anymore to start new projects with? Most people are aware of the language having changed a lot since its heydays.
And honestly, from the article I'm not quite sure why I should consider using PHP. Sure, it has a lot of modern bells and whistles now that it didn't when I last used it 2005-ish, but what makes it stand out? I know a number of people that are super happy and productive with modern PHP, but those are all people that have been using it continuously since forever so it makes a lot of sense for them. But why switch to it from another stack?
E.g. the supposed best database integration of any language with "PHP Database Objects". At least the examples given are the absolute bare minimum I'd expect to get from such an integration. What makes it the best?
Php change from 4.x to 5.x broke my web sites and I still don't trust php after that. I guess they might do it again from 7.x to 8.x, we'll see.
If having the same code working for a long time is the most important for you then you should probably use java or .net. Maybe c++ also but that is not as popular for building web apps.
Yeah most of the PHP hate came from old school PHP 3 code co-mingled with HTML 2/3 that didn't take advantages of the simple OOP added. PHP 4 took decent steps but couldn't shake that stigmata. PHP 5 and some good MVC frameworks (written in 4 and 5) made great advances and 7/8 and the spinoffs make the language pretty good for any scripting or web job. These days I prefer JVM based languages but if I needed a quick web task with minimal overhead PHP would still be in the top 3 options.
But some old timers (genX) still today bemoan php as if it had no progress made.
I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news, but nobody is trying to convince you to use it: nobody cares what you're using for software development... and you're working with out of date information if you think that A Fractal of Bad Design is relevant any more. PHP has evolved a great deal over the last decade, as have the people using it and as has the ecosystem.
Personally, as my username might hint, I've been using PHP for a long time, and, as I've commented on HN before, I would not choose PHP if I was building an engineering organisation from the ground up, and I do not use PHP professionally at the moment, but I absolutely choose to use PHP for my own projects and can enthusiastically say it's a great language in 2023.
If you're not willing to try out modern PHP, that's fine, but ranting and raving about PHP based on your experience more than a decade ago is not relevant any more, given this is a post about the improvements made in the last decade. Many people with experience beyond PHP think PHP is a great language today.
I stopped doing PHP years ago (php 5, if I remember correctly). At the time, here was my beefs with it. I don't know if they're still true since I moved on to greener pastures (and have had no trouble finding work, by the way, so your nephew will be fine too).
- I did not like relying on web server software to handle routing in my applications
- There was no nice way to handle dependencies (I've heard there is now composer but then there was not).
- Redundant and useless modules. For example, several that handle XML, 2 that do Mysql, etc.
- Inconsistency. Can't recall the specific instance of this but two similar functions would work identically but accept arguments in different order.
- Messing with php.ini was disgusting.
I still know a webdev who works in PHP (Laravel specifically) and he tells me the language has improved a lot. I'm happy for him, but I have no desire to return.
Since then, I've worked with Node.js, python, ruby and elixir and am really glad I've had that experience.
All the advancements on PHP are great, it's becoming a JAVA more and more, but likely any PHP legacy apps will never see an upgrade to the latest version. And starting a new project in PHP, nah, there are better more well designed programming languages.
sure, I won't disagree with that, my point was more that the updates are more than 10% useful features usually. You can definitely make a point about how long it took php to get its type system into shape, but php is not exactly just some trendy framework of the week, and there are valid reasons to pick php as your language of choice (namely that it's the lowest barrier language especially for having non technical people do their own installation on some random server/shared hosting)
To me PHP is still a great tool to do these sort of stuff. Not to do a whole application, it was not what it was designed for, but for simple stuff it's great!
And it's improved a lot PHP, nowadays it's not that bad language...
PHP is still usable, sure, but there's just not many compelling reasons to do so, except in certain cases where it does offer a clear-cut advantage (low-friction, newb-friendly development and deployment of simple dynamic sites, for example).
I also find the "there's tons of spaghetti code in other languages" argument tiresome. That's true, but well-designed languages tend to help keep people off that path - or at least do a better job of doing so. PHP is not one of those languages, hence the need for a "PHP the Right Way".
As asserted in the post, PHP is indeed used on a ton of websites. Most of these websites were written when PHP was the best tool for the job. But languages evolve. Other languages have learned the lessons of PHP and improved upon it.
PHP has done a fine job of "modernizing" itself lately, but it's still stuck with a lower quality overall design than some of the alternatives, and those alternatives have kept moving forward at the same time too. It reminds me a lot of IE's "look, we've implemented that thing that the good browsers had 3 years ago" announcements. It's great that PHP is not standing still, and that continued improvement must be awesome for existing projects that are built on PHP.
But for me, starting new projects in 2012, there's zero compelling case for using PHP, just as there are many old languages that would have been "the" choice once upon a time, but are now replaced by better things.
That said PHP gets a lot of undeserved flak and also even if it is not the best tool for everything, - if you end up using it you definitely should know how to use it to your avantage.
[1]: Java is so nice and low ceremony these days and even .Net can now update dependencies without running exe files and clicking next-next-agree-next and I also prefer typed languages a lot.
reply