I am totally with you. There is so much propaganda in this war it's borderline impossible to get anything but a cloudy view on things.
Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much.
Sure RT was full of bullshit, but so are many local papers, Facebook and everything else.
People taking clear sides when all they know is very filtered propaganda is sadening at least.
As much as there is propaganda praising Russia in this conflict, there is pro-Ukraine propaganda, nothing new about it. The fact that you do see one sided propaganda is just indicative of media outlets you use filtering the propaganda they feed you. Or in other words, construct narrative "our side is good, their side is bad".
Why is it so hard for some people to accept that media outlets are filtering propaganda on other divisive topics too?
Unfortunately there is a tremendous amount of propaganda being peddled by all actors involved in this war. This is just objective reality and the nature of war, though partisans on one side or the other want to pretend that everything "their side" states are facts while everything the "other side" states are lies. Amazingly, some of this propaganda is being openly pushed despite being debunked, by people who admit that it is false propaganda! The rationale offered is that fake stories are okay if they "increase morale" (by those who seemingly lack the capacity to understand the concept of credibility or its importance).
Among unbiased observers with a grasp of the situation it is clear that Russia could be doing much more damage to Ukrainian cities, and we can only speculate as to why that is. They could be trying to save munitions, they could be doing it for public relations purposes, they could be doing it because they want relatively intact cities if they eventually succeed in taking over Ukraine, or any number of other reasons.
The one thing you can be sure about, is that anyone who claims to know with certainty what is happening in the war zone, or what the "true" motivation of Russia is at the current time, can be safely disregarded as someone who is either confused or pushing an agenda.
That's because you're reading western websites and west is in alliance with Ukraine (mildly saying). So you're basically reading a newspaper written by a party being in war. Of course it'll be overflowing with propaganda.
Try reading Chinese news on that topic, for example. They're neutral party on this one.
What terrifies me is that you people don't seem to notice it.
Good. Lets hear all sides. Everyone should check out as many state propaganda around the world they can and not rely on just one state propaganda for "truth". All propaganda has innate biases and they all spin stories for their agenda. The easiest way to understand this is by looking at state propaganda around the world on a single topic like ukraine. Then you'll understand that truly, the truth is the first casualty of war. It's a luxury afforded to people not in war at the moment. So we should enjoy this privilege while we can.
One more comment and I stop, because it's getting pointless. I never doubted that Ukrainian civilians are dying, why would I? Nor did I ever defend Putin's actions or the Russian invasion, because again, why would I? I do try to provide some context so. Because propaganda, even if it is for the right cause (whatever that is in general so) and at least partially true still is, well, propaganda. And I don't like propaganda. Ukraine is using information to great effect, and they have every right to do so, because they need and deserve every help they can get. I truly believe this. This doesn't mean so that I believe everything that is published, even from reliable and vetted sources, right now. Because the fog of war, even if it's not outright disinformation, is way to thick to actually judge information in a reliable manner.
What can be said is that war in general is ugly. So a lot of shit and war crimes are being committed and will continue to be committed. All the more reason for political leaders world wide to find a quick, peaceful solution to this mess. One that doesn't give any stretch of land to Russia.
I have otherwise intelligent friends who have unfortunately become immersed in Russian propaganda. With a straight face they will say that everything we see out of Ukraine is a lie. That it is Ukraine bombing their own cities just to make Russia look bad.
It's absolutely fantastic to me how people can just suspend reality and start believing the most absurd notions.
i've stopped following this war/conflict because the amount of bs stemming from both sides is unparalleled from other stuff i've seen historically. i legitimately can't tell what is made up/staged/propaganda from actual facts, and i am guessing i will never know. some of it is very blatant. twitter is filled with bots, and deceit is everywhere. not surprised at all reading this
fyi -- i was born in ukraine and i can say from experience that it is a massively corrupt country, and so is russia.
Yes. One man's "propaganda" is another man's news. It's an assault on Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press.
I also note other news networks have been happily spouting anti-Russian propaganda as well (i.e. "Ghost of Kiev", "Miss Ukraine Fighting", and the "Snake Island Martyrs" to name but 3).
I also note none of the Western Media talk about shelling, murder, and rape of the ethnic Russian civilians in the Donbas since 2014. They call it "propaganda" now but 6 years ago these same western media outlets reported that "Fascist Azov Battalion Ukrainian Military were shelling and murdering Donbas "separatists" (now western media calls them terrorists).
News shouldn't have bias, full stop. news should just report the facts and let the viewer/listener decide. However, bar that both sides should have their voices herd in a democracy.
Reporting on Ukraine is pure wartime propaganda. Western and Russian sources both do it. Look at how often Western sources cite the Ukrainian ministry of defense and no one else in their reporting. You see western sources claiming russia is losing or that there's a six figure death toll on the Russian side and then documents get leaked and whoopsie it's actualy less than 20,000. It's hard to blame anyone for not knowing what the hell is really going on because it's intentionally obfuscated from basically everyone except the militaries involved.
However this type of thing happens at a larger scale than just the Ukraine war. I mean look at the "uigher files" that contain like actors from hong kong and shit lol. If you think just Russia and China exaggerate in their news you're not looking hard enough at our news.
I'm surprised by how many people are unquestioningly believing every bit of propaganda the side they supports puts out. How do you know they're doing poorly? Where is your information coming from and how have you verified it is correct? Quite a bit of what is being put out by pretty much everyone with an audience is laughably not plausible. Do you believe Ukraine's story that Russia paratroopers to plummeting to their deaths in large numbers because of missing parachutes? Some of the stories are absolutely ridiculous and I'm not sure if we're meant to believe them or if they're there simply to make everything else more credible in comparison. This isn't just Ukraine doing it, it's everyone all around coming up with these stories that defy logic. Russia might indeed be doing poorly but I don't see how anyone outside of the war theater, or even most in it, have much confidence in knowing the state of things very well.
Of course, propaganda is a natural and necessary part of war and what we are reading is mostly pro-Ukrainian propaganda. Stories that are meant to raise morale. You should always take war news with a pinch of salt.
Propaganda is being spread by all the parts. Fox News and CNN are not any better. We should read it all, filter the propaganda out, and try to understand what's happening in this world. It's geopolitics, the big game of the big players. You think you exactly know what's happening in Ukraine and who's to blame? I wouldn't be that sure.
I am angry at the Russian Federation and impressed with the Ukrainians and terribly sad at the suffering that this war has caused and will cause for the next decade. I also find the way in which this war is being documented on and reported quite amazing.
As a very young man, my first experience with war that I can remember was my parents watching the reports on the Vietnam war. They were pretty glued to their TVs and unlike the wars before that one, there was video every day and updates every day. They felt they really "understood" what was going on because they were so very well informed. They had seen it with their own eyes after all!
However later, much later, after the war was over and more and more information about the prosecution of the war came out, it became abundantly clear that what they had "seen" was carefully managed by outside forces to convey certain "truths" which were in fact simply narratives drawn from helpful facts with unhelpful facts omitted.
There was of course other news coverage, in China (assumed to be all "propaganda") in Vietnam (presumed to be slanted toward their wants and needs), and so it was widely held by the adults that my parents socialized with (Air Force types) that the US coverage was "best, and most reliable." It was also impossible to get on the spot translations of the other stories so it could take days or weeks before you even got to read the "other side" and by then it was often overtaken by events.
This war is very different. Different even than the recent middle eastern wars of the late 20th and early 21st century. If you were an American you could be forgiven, if you watched the news, for forgetting that the US was even in a war, much less the driving force behind it. This war has an overload of information, from Twitter, to Facebook, to Tik-tok, and of course various media outlets all around the world. It fundamentally changes how one perceives and understands what is going on. While in previous wars the crafting of a narrative was the side hustle of the folks responsible for communications, in this war it is a huge part of the offensive. This "information war" which works to frame the war in a way that is useful to the framer.
Not surprisingly, it isn't nearly so easy to tell only one side of any story. I find this Reuter's story a good example of that. Who are they talking to? What experts are "stumped"? Why is the story they tell important or not important to their intended audience?
The more I read the more I recognize that nobody knows what is "really" going on. Some Russians are deserting but no concept of how many or how fast, Ukraine is winning skirmishes, but again big ones? little ones? How does it inform us on where this is going next? I don't think anyone knows.
Real war is on the streets, people dying, and it is unacceptable. Meanwhile, propaganda in social media, with all these memes, jokes and threats, and are very disturbing and sickening, because they take worst from real war, inhuman and twisted jokes and package them in meme content for everyone to consume. All this was unimaginable 10 years ago. Also, in my opinion, the worst war propaganda content comes from pro Ukraine usernames, I can not explain why, and what is the point.
Of course we have to assume that there is a majority of content being created of Russian failures and losses, while Ukrainian losses might only receive a fraction of the coverage due to the nature of that war (Ukrainian civilians have smartphones, their network still works). And of course our military is gentle, works with surgical precision and has honor while their military is cunning, evil and violent, despite somehow being incompetent and incapable at the same time. It is propaganda.
Still. Russia has been faring so much worse than any observer would've guessed that some people started to rely on a mix of wild speculations and conspiracy theories to bridge the yawning chasm this has left in their world view. It is clear that many observers overestimated the Russian capabilities by a few magnitudes (or others might argue: they underestimated the Ukrainians).
Good question. Most of the news you read about the conflict are fake at the moment.
Videogames footage has been used, old footage from years ago as well. The western media even used footage of Ukraine soldiers committing crimes of war, branding them as Russian soldiers, in the general indifference.
You have to understand, that as of now the western media have entered the war propaganda mode. If you want to inform yourself neutrally you can't trust anyone media alone.
I watch the Russia Today (RT) streams on YouTube. It's good to have a differing point of view. I don't take everything they say as granted, neither I so that with western media. There are also a few western youtube channels trying to do objective reporting on the conflict, my favorite one is S2 Underground.
I find your post disingenuous and possibly propaganda itself, especially because you're quoting a Russian government news source in your post.
The thing that is unacceptable is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Nothing about Ukraine trying to push the invaders out of it's own country in any means they can is unacceptable. The memes and jokes in media are trying to turn something extremely grim into something a little more lighthearted to release stress. Otherwise people would lose their minds amidst all the tortures, mass murders of civilians and other activities being performed upon Ukrainian civilians by the Russian invaders.
And yes, social media being heavily involved would be something unimaginable 10 years ago, because the proliferation of cell phones has now reached much of the world, giving us direct access to the horrors of war.
And no, the worst war propaganda comes from Russia where they literally advocate for the elimination of Ukrainian civilians among other atrocities.
Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much.
Sure RT was full of bullshit, but so are many local papers, Facebook and everything else.
People taking clear sides when all they know is very filtered propaganda is sadening at least.
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