Propaganda is being spread by all the parts. Fox News and CNN are not any better. We should read it all, filter the propaganda out, and try to understand what's happening in this world. It's geopolitics, the big game of the big players. You think you exactly know what's happening in Ukraine and who's to blame? I wouldn't be that sure.
I don’t think it’s helpful to categorize every opposing viewpoint as having fallen for propaganda.
There are valid, reasonable concerns on both sides.
Such as the US backed coup in 2012, the shelling on the Donbas for almost a decade, corruption in high levels of the Ukraine government, questions over Russia’s democratic integrity, etc…
None of those are propaganda, they were in the New York Times. Which is a fairly respected news source in the west.
Discounting everyone who disagrees with you as propagandists is intellectually lazy and keeps people from understanding the nuance of a very complex situation.
Nobody’s hands are pure here, now we are discussing whose hands are dirtiest.
I am totally with you. There is so much propaganda in this war it's borderline impossible to get anything but a cloudy view on things.
Until recently Ukraine was only in media for their gov breaking human rights and stuff like this, and now it's suddenly the long lost brother we all love so much.
Sure RT was full of bullshit, but so are many local papers, Facebook and everything else.
People taking clear sides when all they know is very filtered propaganda is sadening at least.
You want to talk about what aboutism and propaganda? Right this very moment, there are more than 5 active conflicts going on. Myanmar, South Sudan, Syria, Mali, Lydia. Yet the only reason we seem to care about Ukraine so much is because somehow our American media has convinced us it’s the Democracy that’s at stake. Talk about propaganda. Go figure!
After watching the whole Gonzalo Lira stream from Ukraine I concluded that indeed there is some stronger propaganda vector there so I have removed it now... Just trying to build up a proper picture of what's going on. It is crazy how that is hard today.
That's because you're reading western websites and west is in alliance with Ukraine (mildly saying). So you're basically reading a newspaper written by a party being in war. Of course it'll be overflowing with propaganda.
Try reading Chinese news on that topic, for example. They're neutral party on this one.
What terrifies me is that you people don't seem to notice it.
It's amazing that someone can be better informed by purely reading Ukrainian official propaganda than by reading independent news agencies like Reuters. The first has incentives to not lie as to not lose international support while the latter for the sake of being impartial while being unable to verify what's really going on has to take Russian propaganda (which is vastly misinformation) at face value.
What propaganda? I'm sure there's bias in reporting, no question. But bias, say in support of Ukraine, is very different from saying that there's no conflict at all.
Given the recent track record for lies coming out of both Ukraine and Russia, it's probably best to treat everything as propaganda unless proven otherwise in some meaningful way.
Yes I am familiar, and also aware of propaganda as a concept. Having lived in Ukraine, that’s a part of the world that I understand. What’s the implication you’re making here? I’m not really following what conclusion you’re expecting me to reach.
Reporting on Ukraine is pure wartime propaganda. Western and Russian sources both do it. Look at how often Western sources cite the Ukrainian ministry of defense and no one else in their reporting. You see western sources claiming russia is losing or that there's a six figure death toll on the Russian side and then documents get leaked and whoopsie it's actualy less than 20,000. It's hard to blame anyone for not knowing what the hell is really going on because it's intentionally obfuscated from basically everyone except the militaries involved.
However this type of thing happens at a larger scale than just the Ukraine war. I mean look at the "uigher files" that contain like actors from hong kong and shit lol. If you think just Russia and China exaggerate in their news you're not looking hard enough at our news.
This is a fair point - that people are seeing different things in Russia and Ukraine.
But can we reflect for a second that we are all in the same boat? We don't know what we are presented on screens is real either. Who's to say we are receiving the truth? Are our leaders beneficent? I think not.
We are all in the same boat. We are all propagandised. We don't even know what is going on anywhere else, except for what we are able to personally verify. And even that is limited by how we are able to explain and frame our experience!
Good. Lets hear all sides. Everyone should check out as many state propaganda around the world they can and not rely on just one state propaganda for "truth". All propaganda has innate biases and they all spin stories for their agenda. The easiest way to understand this is by looking at state propaganda around the world on a single topic like ukraine. Then you'll understand that truly, the truth is the first casualty of war. It's a luxury afforded to people not in war at the moment. So we should enjoy this privilege while we can.
It's not a propaganda, mind you. All the Putin's myths and FUD are being very well debunked in this article. I live in Ukraine and see what happens here with my own eyes. Trust me, whatever Putin and his state-funded media (RT, ITAR-TASS and others) say is bullshit.
Of course, propaganda is a natural and necessary part of war and what we are reading is mostly pro-Ukrainian propaganda. Stories that are meant to raise morale. You should always take war news with a pinch of salt.
At best we have no information about the Russian presidential plane, which is exactly my point. We make all these assumptions about what's happening without any real basis for those assumptions. This is why I say most of the news around Russia/Ukraine is propaganda. It's all told with the narrative that the west wants.
Note: I support Ukraine, Russia is absolutely in the wrong
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