I mostly am trying to say that there are different priorities. Looking cool is a valid priority for some, and I'm not going to devalue it. Compactness and light weight is also very important for a lot of people. This is on top of some very impressive engineering that Apple put into their machines.
Interesting read. OS X and magsafe are the only things I believe Apple did right. With their overpriced proprietary hardware, awful EFI implementation, and lacking opengl and Vulkan support, why would I want a MacBook?
Has Apple ever designed a product solely around just a couple of specs? No. Consumers unfortunately fail to realize this and compare A vs B based on cherry picked specs. The reason you can't get a top of the line CPU and GPU in the MacBook is that Apple would then have to increase the price past the point which the machine would have broad appeal, or make concessions in other important areas.
What are those important areas?
- Speakers, Mic, Webcam
- Trackpad
- Aluminum chassis and form factor
- Touch ID
- Mac OS (like it or not, this is perhaps the most important feature for those considering Macs.)
It's very possible the competitive landscape has changed since 2010 and they are placing more focus on these ancillary features than before, but the strategy has always appeared to be to deliver a superior holistic machine. I, and their financials would argue they have been doing that from before 2010 through now.
I would totally buy a laptop with the weight and a bit thicker than my 2012 13" MacBook Pro, if I could get:
nvidia 1060/1070 GPU able to run VR headsets, without sounding like a hairdryer
Commensurate or better battery life
More than 16GB RAM
Easily upgradeable SSD.
More durability
Apple is not making this laptop! In fact, I have no inkling if they're going to make that if I wait another year, or ever. So why should I remain an Apple customer? I don't think Apple is interested in me as a customer. What kind of customer am I? Basically, a dev.
Apple charges a huge premium for their machines because they supposedly integrate design and QA so that they don't ship with broken video cards like cheap commodity computers do.
There's two aspects of the apple advantage for me.
The first is apple hardware is reliably nice. It's just done right, with minimal corners cut. Full aluminum body (not plastic), great screen (bright, high resolution, great color (accuracy and range), great keyboard, great touchpad, amazing CPU (fast and low power), very nice GPU (better than any other integrated GPU and much lower power than any faster discrete GPU), with a great memory system (100, 200, or 400GB/sec).
Sure the best laptops some close on some metrics, but generally have lousy iGPUs or lousy battery life. Laptop memory systems typically max out at 75GB/sec, which drives the need for discrete GPUs, which drives the need for larger batteries. Sadly FCC limits max batter size, so you end up with terrible battery life and performance if you aren't plugged in. Or they have are great, except for a poor screen. Or have a nice screen and a lousy keyboard or track pad.
I also find it interesting that if you try to buy a 3 or 5 year old laptop, but far the most expensive are apple laptops. Almost as if they are built better.
My second issue is I find OSX to be MUCH less intuitive. The lack of a real package manage for the OS is painful. Having to add my own, like brew is ugly. Then the UI inconsistencies drive me nuts. Even things like cut/paste (control-c/v) are annoying. Doubly so when using iterm2 where you don't need the control-c. Or if running xquartz I'd need a state diagram to map all the copy/paste rules.
Linux seems much more sane, granted I'm more familiar with it. I'm on a website and want to drag an image in, I just drag the image from any image viewer or file browser and it works. I can drop files into signal by dragging. Or documents into thunderbird as attachments. OSX seems much more finicky about dragging objects between applications, and I end up in the finder, which I find particularly counter intuitive. Oh, sure I could try to remember that bang, splat, apple A goes straight to apps. Seems that browsing from ~ should be WAY easier, or even better just have better drag/drop supports.
Linux just makes more sense to me. 99% of my installs are apt install <appname>, not playing the do I search for the web for a DMG, or try to find it in brew, crap that was a different user, or maybe I need a 3rd app store? Oh that works in a brew cask, but not a brew app, etc. etc. etc.
I also find apple's handling of multiple monitors quite annoying. I don't have anything fancy, just N desktop of 2 monitors each, with a quick keyboard combo to switch (control-alt right or control alt-left). I ask apple folks about their setup and they seem to always mention some weird paid app that worked with the N-1 version of the Apple OS, but the devel got bored and stopped updating.
If you just need Signal, Teams, chrome, Firefox, terminal, and like a nice coherent package manager, drag and drop (not select, control-c, select, control v) of strings, images, documents I'd recommend Linux. I find OSX frustrating to use.
This is a good point, and I thank you for contributing it.
Generally, I'd disagree that Apple makes great hardware. I've owned an iBook and 2 MacBooks, and I think Apple generally produces shoddy quality products.
The exception being their trackpads, which are really quite exceptional.
I still think Apple deserves criticism for locking down both their hardware and their software.
Edit: To be fair, I've never owned a retina MacBook.
Sweet Jesus, why is Apple the only computer company in the world that understands (and applies) the idea that, in the age of Core Duos and 2 GB RAM standard, style is the primary thing most people want in their computer?
It's obvious that Apple doesn't compete on specs. Features like the iPad retina display though, or the laser-drilled sleep indicator on the MacBook Pro, or the unibody enclosures would be dramatically more expensive if they were even available, were it not for Apple's ability to secure them at large scale. There's no massive advantage or design taste in having marginally more RAM, so that's not where Apple's attention is spent.
Apples uniqueness here is their OS and the applications that run on it. That’s why people would buy a Mac over an HP. Only that. If they want pros to keep using Mac OS for video etc, then they need to have competitive hardware.
Apples other concern is the developer side and the app ecosystem: high end build machines and developer workstations are also relevant for their actual business which is selling apps and phones.
Computer hardware for professionals is just a boring service Apple needs to provide in order to support the rest of their business. It’s not even a visible product like a MacBook or an iMac- it’s designed to be hidden on the floor because it’s huge and noisy (the trash can was a failed attempt at working around that fact)
Edit: to follow up on the “powerful machines are a boring service” idea: If Apple didn’t want to risk the brand damage of launching a boring product, they could simply license dell or hp to sell certain servers and workstations with Mac OS to let the highest end render machines and build servers etc run Mac OS. They could easily charge a 20% premium and people would be happy to buy them.
This is so interesting! Your parent said "unrivaled hardware" and went on to give some examples of the types of things meant by that: frequent component updates, nice high-res displays, battery life, support, and form factor. (Left out the trackpad, which really is a huge differentiator.) You replied by questioning things like failure rates, lifespan, side by side component images, and resistance to heat, cold, dust, and impacts. There is a big difference between your lists, his are things users care about day to day, and yours are things engineers or IT managers care about. Well, I'm a user, and while I have very little affection for Apple, as far as I can tell they're the only ones making very nice user-focused laptop hardware at reasonable prices ($1000-$1200 vs. more like $2000 for a similarly nice (but, irrelevantly, more powerful!) non-Mac in my experience).
I find the logo and "sameness" rather embarrassing, but it seems to be the only game in town. Please do link me to a $1200 non-Mac laptop with a high-res 15" screen, thin form factor, and nice trackpad.
Right. Apple machines have never been top performers. The M* machines are just good compromise machines when you need to be mobile and are energy constrained. Or sometimes, if you spend $6000+, they can have competitive absolute performance specs, re: available RAM and RAM bandwidth for tasks like LLM.
None of the new desktop machines are useful for us. We want NVIDIA Pascal graphics cards and lots of RAM. (128GB or more) You just can't get that with Apple hardware.
Companies optimize towards whatever drives their customers buying decisions.
For some makers that’s going to be performance or cost. For businesses laptops reliability and security are going to be big factors.
For Apple the overall experience is a large part of why people buy; Apple users want a great hardware experience integrated into the OS, and they’re willing to sacrifice performance and price to get it.
It's bizarre to me that Apple has never understood that computers are a highly recommended product. The reason that Apple laptops are popular is that the tech crowd is highly loyal and recommends macs to all their friends, parents, grandparents, when asked. And the tech crowd provides every hardware forum in existence with lots and lots of free Apple advertising.
It was never about Apple having better marketing. It was about Apple owning tech loyalty.
When the macbook is no longer the favored dev machine, Apple is going to lose a lot of market share.
- HW design
- UI
- UX
That Macs come with awesome VRAM is only because #3. Apple has no explicit incentive to make LLM-ready machines.
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