What's wrong with that? The first half of your comment is insightful, but is it really that hard to believe that maybe some people do derive satisfaction from accomplishment?

Is this just a momentary high, or does it result in a lasting effect on one's mood/disposition?

Reflecting on my personal (not "great") achievements, I'll feel a momentary sense of pride, which is a good thing to be able to feel from time to time, but largely inconsequential to my day-to-day.

I agree on the hedonism but I'm not sure the happiness-achievement struggle is as simple. There are plenty of people who have achieved stuff my some metric (fame, wealth, etc.) and are still deeply unhappy

That's a fantastic way to put it. If we aren't being productive to improve happiness (directly or indirectly), then why are we doing it?

This attitude seems to overlook that there can be a tension between present and future fulfilment. There are things you can do (or avoid doing) now that will make your life a lot less enjoyable later on. Activities that 'make you a better person over time' often require effort, discomfort, or sacrifice of some kind in the present (exercising, studying, therapy, etc...).

I don't think it is a good idea to maximise pleasure in the present - at least not at the expense of future pleasure - but to maximise the total pleasure you get out of your life, which will often mean doing something right now that you don't find intrinsically rewarding.

I'm sincerely glad for you, but how much of your current happiness comes from the challenge that you posed yourself and you won? In other terms, how much effort are you putting every day in your (fully respectable) cause?

> Can everybody be as happy as me with as little as me? I'm not sure.

Me neither. It looks to me as you chose to be happier via ecology. Most people have already chosen how they wish to be happier, and giving up cheap energy is just a huge roadblock for them.

Ah, but at least I'm trying. And as for those others who have tried, failed, or even done harm - I'm glad that they tried, too. The major pitfall that I see people falling into is not having any real, positive goal that is bigger then themselves. Sure, you can make mistakes attaining that goal - but the biggest mistake of all is to go through life aimlessly.

Yes. All of this insecurity and fear about what one has accomplished is nothing more than processes put into peoples' mind as children about what they should accomplish, should be. What is the point of feeling sad about your life?

More importantly, why do they feel sad about their lives? Is it truly their decision, based on what they truly wanted, or an expectation that society (i.e. just other people) imposed on them? I have always lived with a sense that what I chose to do is meaningful and important for no other reason than I chose to do it. Why does one need more of a reason in life to reach goals than that, as long as you can satisfy your basic needs?

That's precisely what I'm arguing is not a healthy attitude. If you're unhappy now, I don't think you will be satisfied with what you have done and would be able to die peacefully _once_ you get featured on Time magazine proclaiming how you reduced poverty in Bangladesh. By then, your goals would have moved to something even bigger. By all means, improving state of humanity is a noble goal but being unhappy because you haven't been able to make sufficient progress towards it is an unhealthy attitude.

I do think we live in the most comfortable of times, but that gives me no satisfaction. The lack of satisfaction makes us dwell on mortality. I don't think I would care if I was killed during a hunt or contracted a virus after having lived a fulfilling life. So to what extent is technological progress and economic growth useful if I get no satisfaction from it?

That's something 1 in 10000 or even less do. Why it would be you (or me for that matter)?

>What exactly are you saying? Rip off the band-aid of ambition and stop trying?

If you're not getting results, and spend year after year on "self improvement" skills to get to be Musk or whatever, why not? Enjoy life, nobody signed any contract with the universe that they'll be the "inventor" and "great artist" and so on.

What are you saying, the rest several billions that will not "leave behind tools that will better their species" are useless waste of potential, or just normal people living their lives, and it's the idea of this unlimited potential that is a dangerous and damaging americanism peddled by snake-oil self-help gurus?

(Heck, if the regular life of the species is meaningless in itself, then inventing tools to improve it, wont add meaning to it, just some conveniences).

Probably because we've been conditioned (through billions of dollars, spent yearly, on marketing) to believe that happiness comes with the acquisition of certain items, status or experiences.

We've conflated happiness with dopamine rushes and short-lived pleasure, and believe the feeling can be elongated by merely emulating the actions which either provided both or could provide more of both.

Many of us have also altered our lives to support the above mentality - living in densely packed cities with air and sound pollution, or poor commutes, working around the clock, or in chaotic and stressful companies, doing ultimately purposeless or even outright destructive work, with the hopes of gaining more money or more status to fund the above, etc.

Coupled with the increasing social isolation and division, the never-ending outrage we're told to feel over today's new issue, which we as a civilization are going through, it's not hard to see why people are finding it hard to say they're happy.

Few people do, but also few people even try. Do we have any estimate of the ratio between those two groups?

I'm strongly with 'jniedrauer here. I feel the same dissatisfaction. There are well-known open problems the world has at all levels, large and small. I would like to spend time working on those in a meaningful manner. I hate the standard life advice of "work your job, marry, have kids, enjoy yourself". It does not resonate with me, and never did.

> I'd even argue that setting more realistic goals makes you more happy and this simple fact increases your odds of helping humanity significantly forward.

That's a fair point, and I find even Tomminn's words about "not being a special person" right. Something I've been coming to grips with. Being the person that makes a direct, huge and positive impact on the world is mostly a matter of luck. But setting smaller goals should still allow to contribute with effort instead of just luck, and maybe even "create" some of that luck.

> Think about it, when is your energy level highest? When do you wake up with that sense of wonder and awe and motivation?

Not OP, but for myself - it's when I dream of Star Trek-level world. A world of honest & good-faith cooperation, of mastery of the environment through science and technology, a world that expanded to space. Correspondingly, my energy levels are the lowest whenever I have to grind out code for another CRUD app that exists mostly in a large-scale gambling that is startup industry, and that does not address any problem standing between us and the dream utopia.

> I guess the question is: When will you be truly happy? Will you be happy when you have helped humanity forward in any significant way? Or, will you be happy when you have good relations with the people around you and a generally fun existence?

That's a good question, but I think that it's not either-or. Seeing that you helped make a world even a tiny bit better is a long-term satisfaction thing. "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" is fun in the moment, and definitely makes going through life much more pleasant. But - at least for me - it also seems incredibly empty.

IMO that's exactly it. At certain point I decided that I will work both harder and smarter because I like money and the peace of mind and freedom they enable... but in the end all my aspirations for changing the world for the better won't ever materialize, I am pretty sure of it.

So in the end it turns out that a happy philosophy would be something like in the "Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy":

"Just do what makes you happy and don't worry about the world."

Even that is pretty hard nowadays because we constantly get bombarded with comparisons. The media REALLY loves turning people on each other.

There is a whole lot of assumptions in that sentence. To start, why would doing the right thing be effortless?

Add to that, if you are in a bad state you are likely to be pessimistic of the outcome of the task which makes it even harder. And fighting that is anything but effortless.

You could argue that when you are in a perfect state stars will align but even if you truly believe that the effort to get to that place will often be nothing but heroic and most people will never achieve it.

So it just feels like moving the goalpost? Which is fine if framing it like that gets you closer to where you want to be. But I'd need more convincing to believe that would be easier (for me).

Someone asked a few days ago what the best habit was that HNers developed last year and what the health benefits were. I realised I shouldn't do things because I thought they'd make me happy, and it has changed everything. Put another way, I don't only do things I think I'm going to enjoy any more.

It's an incredibly powerful mindset to not have an expectation of happiness or enjoyment as an outcome of an action. I used not to do a lot of things because I couldn't see the point or because I thought I wouldn't like them. Now I do those things anyway, more just to see what they're like rather than because I expect to enjoy them. I do things to see what actually happens instead of limiting myself to my own preconceptions.

Most of the time, I'm right, and I don't enjoy those things, but that's OK. They're still showing me different aspects of life and allowing me to exercise arguably our most innate gift, the ability to experience. There have been a few surprises though. I've taken up sports I'd previously discounted, and now I've stuck with them long enough I can see the appeal. I'm learning a musical instrument and get much less frustrated because I see the learning process as just training my brain, a function of time and effort. There's no point in being frustrated.

Now I just view experiences as things to be experienced, without requiring anything more of them. This means there's less pressure on me and on them to give me anything. My attitude to them and awareness of them is more important than deriving happiness and enjoyment.

Now I've written that it reads like zen, but when I practiced zen it was because I wanted to be happy from it. The thing with learning is it's not enough to have the knowledge. You need the insight to really internalise something. It's that "A-ha!" moment. I guess I arrived at the same conclusion as the Zennists from a different direction. Only doing things you think will make you happy is just a way too limiting mindset.

It really has been a complete revolution in my approach to life. I can't recommend it enough. And it looks like this attitude will keep my brain healthy too.

Says who? My goal is 100% to cut out all unwanted things. Even going so far that I only want things that I know bring me joy. Automate all chores and stop doing anything that I have the slightest doubt about. I'm at a stage now where I don't care if I never experience anything new. I could die happy continuing doing what I'm doing for the rest of my life.

If what you're doing would potentially create more "happiness," or "positive outcome" for others.

But most of what most of anyone does has no significant or lasting impact. "Merely satisfactory" gets the truck to the dock on time, the Uber customer picked up and delivered, or the HN post replied to.

Aiming at excellence is great, but in most cases pushing toward excellence at all personal cost, successful or not, doesn't really move the needle.

Take care of yourself first, unless you're an extraordinary individual in extraordinary circumstances.

Most of "this" just doesn't matter.

Yes, I'm saying you would be better off dropping that, and instead just engaging in pure creation without any dependencies.

> Why would I be doing this if I was only going to keep all of it to myself?

That's my whole point. You shouldn't need a reason beyond "fun" or "just because" or even "keeping the hands/ears busy".

People are unreliable, having reasons that depend on other people are unreliable. Letting go of that and having only reasons that depend on yourself is reliable.

> Otherwise, the entire effort is nothing but toil with no sense of reward.

Once again, it is entirely possible to just do it without any sense of reward. I know because I've developed this mindset, while I used to crave reward.