Let's make mistakes was an odd fit anyway, a bit like The Incomparable (which is very good but would belong more to a macworld network obviously).
Listening right now to the mule version of The Talk Show, it feels dull and way worse than when cohosted by Dan. It would actually be way funnier with a cohost like Mike Monteiro.
I'm pretty disappointed with this move. I was getting a little tired of the Talk Show on 5By5 but it was still enjoyable because Dan brought humor and structure to the show.
I remember when Let's Make Mistakes split off and formed a new podcast network it felt odd to me at the time, like they used 5By5 to get some initial audience and then took them for themselves. For some reason it fit with the impression I get that Mike Monteiro is an asshole.
With this move I am done with the Talk Show. I just dont care any more.
Seriously though, it's John's show and he's free to take it to another network. I just _really_ hope that this transition was done in a respectful manner and that there isn't bad blood between 5by5 and Mule.
A little background: Let's Make Mistakes, Mule Radio's main show, got started with 5by5's help. Let's Make Mistakes was a 5by5 network show for it's first year of existence. It garnered all of the listenership and cross promotion that comes with being part of 5by5. After a year of getting traction, Mule split the show off into its own podcasting network, essentially becoming a competitor to 5by5. If Mule now aggressively poached The Talk Show from 5by5 then it was certainly a dick move.
Of course, we don't have all the details and this is just speculation. So again, I hope this was done in a way that respected Dan and 5by5.
I give Dan Benjamin huge respect for doing this, he certainly didn't have any obligation to do so. Gruber and Mike Monteiro on the other hand have basically given the audience a massive fuck you. I am not really surprised by that but it is a disappointment and has put me off checking out the new Talk Show going forward, or indeed any Mule Radio podcasts. Dan will be fine anyway, 5by5 has some of the best shows on the internet.
I agree, and if it's true that John took the show's name without even giving Dan advance notice let alone asking permission, then I'm disappointed. I'm curious in general about mule's split from Dan. I loved the original "fuck you, pay me" but never got into "let's make mistakes" and was surprised that they split off 5by5 (and now appear to be poaching) but I'd like to hear the other side...
Let's Make Mistakes didn't "split off". They paid to be on the 5by5 network and once they established themselves, they moved it to their own network. No funny business there, basically.
I agree on all counts. Shows like Macbreak Weekly and TWiT itself became insufferably tedious. They are like raucous dinner parties while the 5by5 shows (usually 1on1) are still conversations.
Back to Work is essential, Hypercritical is good, and Build & Analyze and The Talk Show are decent if you don't mind a bit of Apple-club party-line (Benjamin/Mann/Siracusa are also Apple-club, but not annoying about it).
I would think that mule radio would be on precarious legal ground carrying and unauthorized continuation of what is (likely) the intellectual property of 5by5. Hard to say for certain without seeing the agreement between 5by5 and Dan but I'm surprised they wouldn't give the show a new name.
(On a personal note I think Dan is getting screwed here after doing most of the work and this has finely put me over the edge in considering Gruber a git)
I definitely understand the feeling that the podcast has become stale. I still enjoy it very much, but topics have had to become more and more specific lately and as such I feel the show runs the risk of losing its "timeless" quality. However, I do hope that Marco considers staying with 5by5 when he does decide what he wants to do next. Mule Radio is great too but I really love the dynamic that Dan brings to all of his podcasts.
No doubt Dan is pissed, but holding back his anger because that's his nature.
The Talk Show was started by John and Dan in 2007. The website (thetalkshow.net) is registered to Dan and was most likely coded by him as well. Dan has just as much invested into The Talk Show as Gruber. It would've been much classier to leave 5by5 and start an entire new show.
His new show was alright. Still a good watch, but very, very far from recreating the Daily Show magic. Apparently he left because of disagreements/censorship by Apple, so let's see what he is able to do on his original chair.
Something to think about. This isn't the first time a show disappeared. Remember when Geek Friday was good and Dan was co-hosting it with Faith? One wonders what happened, any why Dan was made angry enough to suggest a truly dismal co-host for Faith. Blame Gruber if you want, but I'm almost certain that Dan had a part in this too.
Yeah I liked breaking points when it was just the two original hosts even though it was still opinionated. Honestly the podcast scene has just turned into cable news
Here's the thing. I loved the Talk Show for the longest time, but even recently noticed that things were starting to... go downhill. Never would have guessed it was between the hosts but the magic wasn't there anymore. It seemed more like a chore. I missed the Bond stuff a lot, and was looking forward to the potential next movie club but it never happened. And then things just seemed to become more and more pauses and more and more wasted hours.
Another thing: Gruber's a terrible host. Don't get me wrong, I think the man is great, his blog fantastic, a magnificent writer, and a really smart guy. But his constant pauses, breaks, and seeming unwillingness to be on a show doesn't make for good listening. Which is why Dan was KEY to the show. Having him to help guide the conversation, reel Gruber back in, and most importantly, feed him the softballs so Gruber could knock them out of the park was KEY to the success of the show.
I just don't understand how Gruber can expect to do the show without him. Now maybe if part of this was because of bad blood, and Gruber is joined by his friends it won't matter, he will WANT to talk to them and it wont be an issue. But I don't know.
All in all, I'm not sure I'm going to keep listening. Gruber & Friends only interests me if the friends are the aforementioned Lonely Sandwich, or Merlin, or other guys who's shows and insight I've come to know and love.
As for the reasoning? Your guess is as good as mine, and I think people are right in assuming it's bad blood otherwise an official statement should have come from someone. To be fair, as respect to the fans and people who listen one, if not both should have said something (Leo Laporte is very open when his shows/hosts move on) because it's the professional thing to do. If the split is personal not professional the silence makes more sense. That said, these guys make themselves out to be professional so even if it was personal they should still have come out an said something (again, see Laporte).
One thing is for certain. Listen to Dan's back and forth with hosts like Siracusa, Dalrymple, and of course Merlin Mann. Merlin signs off with an "I Love You" and you can tell there's a genuine friendship amongst that professional relationship. Gruber and Dan never had that, so maybe its for the best they go their separate ways.
But for both to say nothing to anyone is a big Screw You to the fans (note I only used screw to be polite, I would have opted for the harsher option), and doesn't leave me wanting to hear Talk Show 3.0.
I'll still read Daring Fireball religiously though.
Listening right now to the mule version of The Talk Show, it feels dull and way worse than when cohosted by Dan. It would actually be way funnier with a cohost like Mike Monteiro.
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