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Then there is the question of reliability of the information collected through spying: if you know everything you say online is being read, and you are planning to commit a terrorist act, you will use your knowledge to spread false information.

One day we will consider spying just like torture, an immoral source of unreliable information.



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What's immoral about spying?

Of course spying is immoral. I sure wouldn't want to be the friend or partner of someone who thinks it isn't.

Torture and genocide are also very old tools in the 'art' of statecraft, so that's not much of an endorsement.

If the supporters of this stuff are really down to 'well everybody does it', perhaps that's a sign that it's really just bad behavior.


Spying is not necessarily immoral, I presume.

What exactly is immoral about spying on a foreign nation state?

We do it to them, they do it to us, what exactly is the issue? Is there some no-spying gentleman's agreement that's being violated, here?


Spying for your personnal enlightment is one thing. Using that information and interferring to bent the course of things in your own interrest is anotherr. There is no clear line between the two and it is easily crossed. So assuming it's only a matter of spying is in my opinon a little bit naïve.

That's also the reason why spying people is something to worry. Who controls what is done with the inormation ? How could one defend against abuse of a state? This will be like drones killing civilians ! No one cares. Until it's your turn, and no body will care.


I think that my point above is that spying is bad, we're forced to choose between two evils and rather than choosing sides we should armor ourselves against evil

Being spied on against your will is terrorism. It is corruption in the US as the spying has violated the highest law.

That's not spying, that's terrorism.

Now maybe you want to make the case that there is good and bad terrorism?


Spying is gaining access to information that someone doesn't want you to have access to. It's not necessarily a precursor to violence even if it is often used to gain a military advantage.

Spying is never ok as what is acceptable today may not be tomorrow, a moving target regardless of the current government.

Spying can mean more than just gathering information. Subversion and control of our institutions seem desirable goals for example.

Spying isn't the only method of gaining knowledge, polls exist

And if the definition is vague enough to include both, you can't use it as an argument to exclude one


That’s why the word “spying” is in quotes.

Spying is a good thing. Real information keeps people from second guessing each other and prevents cold conflicts from becoming hot.

True, but I am talking about the practical risk based on what is known about the spying.

Spying is part of life. We do it, they do it, everybody foes it.

If your enemy (and the US seems to place absolutely everyone on this category nowadays) has the power to insert information at will into your spying device, it will always be much, much worse than useless.

Spying is always bad, when its the other guy doing it. Isn't the rule pretty much, its ok as long as you don't get caught?

Nations spying on each other is immoral? Why?
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