Well, that's something of an edge case given that Erik Larsen originally came from DC & Marvel, so he has that over-the-top exaggerated anatomy style, but yeah it's indefensible.
Most of the newer Image stuff is really mature and has some fantastic female role models, see for example Lazarus, Shutter, or Copperhead, all have strong female leads.
It's not about anatomical correctness. It's that the sexualization–of both the male superheroes and the female ones–is explicitly male-based. Female gaze sexualization looks different.
These are not hypothetical comics. If the characters are primarly tools to entice male audiences, then they are unlikely to also serve as good role models.
The curves themselves are excessive, but look at the outfits and your argument comes tumbling down. Male superheroes are rarely portrayed in a sexually suggestive manner. Female superheroes see physically impossible cleavage and tons of skin as par for the course.
The exaggerated features make male superheroes look powerful, while female superheroes look like playboy bunnies. It's like you're supposed to identify with the former and lust after the latter — they're both drawn to male sensitivities.
(what do you know, the comic that image mocks was written by a guy...)
I'm sorry, but things like the "Hawkeye initiative" are just plain stupid for completely overlooking the differences between male and female sexuality. Look at the romance novel covers above and try to tell me they wouldn't look absolutely ridiculous with the genders swapped. It reminds me of sites like "Escher Girls", a collection of "boobs and butt" poses in art that the bloggers think are "anatomically impossible" and "disturbing", despite being absolutely trivial for men and women to perform alike.
And judging by the number of female comic book character cosplayers, I think it's safe to say that quite a few women "want to be" these characters, sexualized or not, as well. Women have created strong, sexualized, camp characters like Bayonetta explicitly as female power fantasies, but that never stops a certain band of puritanical American feminists from branding them as "offensive" symbols of the patriarchy.
I believe that given a pie of content from comic book targeted at young male adult the pie dedicated to action is way larger than the pie dedicated to romance - and the flatness of woman carachter has more to do with audience interests / space dedicated to romance than writers' skills.
that said I too hate that non protagonist women are mostly treated as props to a story and protagonist women mostly embody male tropes in a woman body - I think there can be much more than that.
Your initial argument was essentially "but men are sexualized too!" And that was irrelevant, because we're talking about ladies.
That comic you posted actually sums it up pretty well, super heroes are drawn as male power fantasies. Also notice I never said anything about women finding Batman unattractive, the problem is that women are drawn almost exclusively to please just men. (Look up male gaze)
If I started reading romance novels, then I too might give a damn if my gender is normally portrayed in certain ways. But I read comic books and found myself enjoying the ones where women get to be people to.
the portrayal of men is just as dumb and unrealistic. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy comics quite a bit (Infinity Guantlet anyone? Planet Hulk? World War Hulk???)
I think hyper sexualization of any gender is stupid and serves more as softcore porn than anything.
It is just slightly more offensive to women who spent a long time in our history being told "Well maybe you shouldn't have worn that dress and he wouldn't have hit on you the way he did."
BUT HEY before this gets out of hand, it is equally as degrading as putting down a man for "Well if your wife hits you and you just take it, your a little b()."
There has to be some give and take on this issue, it is not so clearly black and white.
I'm a big enough adult to recognize it's just stupid to think I can change comics and how they are drawn. Maybe if there were a bit more selection for my daughter so she could ease her way into it though? That would be pretty cool.
We're talking about creating a business out of an existing business.
Not getting rid of what we have, at some point you have to accept the reality of the world we live in. I don't want to strike down comic books, but it would be cool if they had a bigger selection for my kids (who would love to enjoy what daddy is reading, but they can wait until they're more mentally/emotionally/physically developed before being exposed).
Male superheroes are portrayed as powerful, older, athletic, and rich. Those attributes are also the exact same attributes that dating services announce as the stereotypical attributes women look for in men.
When comic want to side-kick people should laugh at, they often reverse those attributes. A meek, young, unathletic and poor male is the steriotypical joke for a superhero.
So I find male superheroes are exaggerated portrayed in a sexually suggestive manner in comic books, maybe even more than Female superheroes. At least they don't try to reverse the female stereotype so people can laugh at it.
The problem is that all superheroes can be considered sex symbols, they're all examples of the greatest that people can achieve in terms of attitude, physical fitness, etc. One could argue the whole superhero thing is problematic.
This article is built on a bunch of assumptions and stereotypes which is terribly ironic given the subject matter. Some of it may be true but some of it just very wrong.
Men can expect that their presence at an event won't automatically be assumed to be decorative or secondary to another man.
Not really. Ask the benchwarmers for a high school sports team.
Despite the growing presence of women in comics, as publishers, editors and creators as well as consumers, a preponderance of men will either treat women at conventions as inconveniences, booth bunnies or even potential dates.
I can't comment on comic books but in the books, movies and TV shows I want I've actually found the exact opposite is increasingly true. There's a strong temptation to make the female characters super-human creatures with a PHD and a shotgun. Always a witty comeback. Always the most moral and ethical characters.
Men are also not going to be automatically assigned into a particular niche just based on their gender.
Tell that to some straight guy who happens to like female-centric things. They're going to be assumed to be homosexuals most of the time.
And when they are seen as customers, they're often automatically assumed to be buying one of the designated "girl" properties
Perhaps in the same way a man strolling around certain types of stores popular with females would be seen?
One of these is welcomed into geek culture with open arms, the other has to justify their existence in the first place.
> Maybe it's a bad idea to say this out loud, but when you get protagonists who are "just born preternaturally awesome", they're generally female, right? I'm not sure the same trend applies for male protagonists.
Do you watch many superhero movies? Because I feel like you must not.
Many of the characters are literal gods, and many more are just uncannily good at everything because of some hand wavey backstory.
Even the characters that start off "normal" tend to become awesome by simply being in the right place at the right time and being exposed to some external force (rather than through overcoming flaws or weaknesses on their own).
Exactly. Men in comics are male power fantasies. Women in comics are also male fantasies. The message that these kinds of covers send to his daughter, or women in general is "This is not for you".
Sure, they've attempted female-targeted comic books. They were bland, pandering, and universally sucked. They thought they knew what women wanted, and they don't.
If they want more female readership, here's all they need to do: Make the same comics you've been making, just without the giganto tits and sexy poses. Women enjoy comics for the same reason as men: great art, great story lines, and lots of action. It's the sexualization of female characters that excludes them.
> female characters that are undeveloped and lacking any tragic flaws
You mean like Hunger Games or Twilight?
Or the male equivalent of Capt. America? (Or Harry Potter?) Steve Rogers is just your ordinary everyman who's underdeveloped and lacking in any tragic flaws.
I mean... at this point, even Hulk is missing out on his classic flaw of rage. *All* the Marvel characters have braindead writing these days, female or male. But plenty of the "good" ones (ie: Capt. America) were always like this from the start, its a trope in comic books for a reason because it keeps working. (Superman, Shazam, Capt. Marvel, Capt. America). For some stories, you don't need a flawed lead character, they could just "be good" and you can focus on other elements of storytelling.
But that's the kind of main character tons of people love and gobble up. Both male, and female, versions of it.
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But hey, I like my "Superman" stories. (My Adventures with Superman cartoon this year was excellent). Or perhaps for a more well-regarded character: Ang from "Avatar the Last Airbender" is pretty much your typical every-man / heroic type without any tragic flaw. (Etc. etc. Lots of good examples around all of writing. Indeed, Oedipus Rex is arguably one of the earliest "Lack of Flaws" character to maximize the chance that the audience take's Oedipus's side in his struggles).
Mary Sue / boring good guys / Superman types / Lawful-Good Paladins who just try to make everyone feel better can be done well. It just takes good writing to make them captivating. I personally think they're the hardest character to make work, but when its done well I enjoy the trope (especially because I recognize how hard it is to write).
He's JUST NOW REALIZING this? Modern comics are the most sexually objectifying medium in the world, second only to straight pornography.
I always thought it was fucked up, even as a kid, how crazily unrealistic and sexualized comics were. Like, I knew it was wrong that women were being portrayed this way. But I still bought the comics of course.
If you think the way women are portrayed in video games and comics is normal, you are honestly messed up. The most scary thing about this article is that it took him this long to figure this out.
Nah dude.I get what you are saying, but if that is the case, why are male villians often grotesque, but female villians always (or almost anyway) just as sexy as female heros?
Heros are drawn for you to identify with as a power fantasy. The female characters aren't about who you want to be. It's about what you want to see.
That's why superman gets to be fully dressed, whereas super girl shows her belly and wears a skirt.
And even if you were right, that would mean that the ideal female super hero is usually wearing a skimpy outfit showing skin, and what does that say?
Breaking news! Father takes 7-year old daughter to a comic shop for older, male audiences. Daughter is offended! Misogyny, etc! Males are creeps! Sexualizing women in comics is offensive to women and therefore immoral! It's not like women can choose not to read such comics. It is a sign that you live a life of highest quality if you can worry about sexualization in fictional comics.
Uh, it has (at least, by conventional stereotypes; I don't know the actual gender identity of the individuals involved, at least some of whom are fictional) women’s headshots, a man (though this might not be apparent in the actual image without being familiar with the source image), a male demonic figure, and a reptilian beast that doesn't particularly have strong gender indications.
So, is your complaint that it I closed female-appearing figures at all, or...what, exactly?
who's being selective? neither of your examples are mainstream. and isn't the Boys based on an old comic series? And it's certainly made to be a comment on the sexless trope we see in todays superheroes
Most of the newer Image stuff is really mature and has some fantastic female role models, see for example Lazarus, Shutter, or Copperhead, all have strong female leads.
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