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MSN replaced journalists with AI publishing fake news about mermaids and Bigfoot (futurism.com) similar stories update story
309 points by cpeterso | karma 43338 | avg karma 5.73 2022-12-03 14:00:25 | hide | past | favorite | 162 comments



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What Intel are you referring to?


I think hes talking about a thread on Twitter where it was exposed the Biden admin was working with Twitter employees to take down content for political reasons.

That’s one way of stating it.

Another would be that people associated with the private citizen Biden requested that Twitter review tweets that were against the tos. Those tweets appear to be revenge porn. Twitter took down some.


Can you really consider someone who has held public office for that long (or their immediate family) as a private citizen? Even if you were friends with the biden family before they had any political power, would you not prioritize what they ask of you after they gained that power? People like having famous and powerful friends usually and will go out of their way to keep them.

Well it sounds like the argument you want to make is that it’s wrong if the people in power request Twitter to enforce their tos on specific tweets? If so, it might interest you to know that the actual administration in charge at the time also requested tweets to be removed for tos violations and those some of those were honored too.

If anything, I believe, in the interest of tranparency, Twitter should make all such requests from governments available to the public moving forward.


I believe that to be a mischaracterization of my statement, I made no comment on the morality/fairness. Just that IMO atleast humans will always inheritly operate with bias. This bias can be unintentionally exploited to enable a form of social coersion. Hunter biden is gonna be seen by people as joe bidens son, because that is a literal fact. Unless the twitter employees were approached anonymously you have to assume that bias to be in play.

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Last week YouTuber Allen Pan launched Canadian United Media in response to CNN using one of his previous videos unattributed on their platforms. The site is all AI generated from a model trained on CNN content. Funny to see MSN putting another Allen Pan idea in to practice.

https://youtu.be/lCSrN-e_dkE

https://canadian-united.media/


Excellent, indeed, this will happen more and more, completely made up infinite content that seems very real, news site, entire functioning social graphs/networks with believable characters...

CUM?

Better than Clinton Network Network. And it being Canadien makes CUM a lot more digestible. EOM!

Ah yes, I can see how someone could mistake this for a real news article: https://canadian-united.media/2022/12/03/your-guide-to-findi...


Were the main images for each article generated by AI too? They are pretty funky, especially the "Fishermen Catch Mermaid Creature in Their Nets" (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/fishermen-catch-me...).

Looks more like a heavily cropped image of an actual statue than an AI image to me.

What a sad shitshow. News used to be a really good app on windows phone.

I'm confused about what "the rules" are for fake news. Once we a week we go to the supermarket, and lining the checkout aisle we see tabloids peddling what seem to be obviously false celebrity gossip stories, but presented as news. This has been going on for as long as I can remember - so, at least 30 years.

I guess we're supposed to be alarmed here because MSN was once not a tabloid? Not that I would know, I've never read it.


Amusingly enough if you actually read the tabloids (or at least decades ago this was true) they often were just reprints of actual small-time news stories; the tabloids basically made the front cover out of "Bob in Bobville said what his brother done got et by a hornytoad".

And on the other hand, there's Weekly World News: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News

Were they the ones who published the Bat Boy series? I loved it.

The research bulletin of Men in Black if memory serves, although wiki puts it more mildly.

Yes? It is the steady and constant decline and spread that is the problem.

I tend to agree, just thinking out loud.

Filling grandma's trusted news page with nonsense is elder abuse, and could be much worse if they hit her with, say, antivax conspiracies at the right time.


I don’t see why the specificity is very relevant. Declining quality of reporting hurts everyone, grandma and kids and geniuses and morons all.

It's relevant because we can't imagine the impact on everyone. If we try, we simply imagine ourselves.

I certainly agree that grandma is not the only kind of person who could be harmed by this.


Its hardly steady and constant. There is a recent spike, but "yellow" journalism was a really big thing historically.

Gossip is presented as gossip, fake news a news (or in this case facts).

(I read the article twice, the website being unknown to me I thought it was fake news, and it still seems weird to me that MSN uses AI generated content, otoh why not, the mess MSN forces on me in windows has been distopian for years, and the mentioned article appears on MSN. Sad times that these days I'm sceptical of anything. I honestly feel this is one of the biggest dangers of our times, the ease with which populations can be influenced and truth is just a matter of alternative facts, the common argument is that it is of all times but that neglects how much easier, more sophisticated, and larger the reach is)


If there's any doubt about the authenticity of Futurism, you can click through and read the MSN "articles" for yourself. It's definitely real!

I do think there's some confusion here over exactly what's happening. MSN's AI isn't generating entire articles like GPT-3; it's just using AI to curate articles for republication from across the web, but accidentally (or perhaps intentionally, in a sort of wink-wink situation for clickbait traffic) selecting ones that are clearly fake news (including literal stuff about mermaids and bigfoot.)


Ah yes, with all the GPT3 news I thought MSN was using it. Thank for correcting that assumption. Doesn't make the situation any better of course, it's just that MSN forwarding anything unfortunately is no news to me.

Some people have been alarmed about this and did drag publishers to the courts over fake news parading as truth for much longer than three decades. That it has been having a constant presence for as long as you can think and doesn't do harm to you personally doesn't mean it's not a societal problem. Car exhausts haven't killed you in the past and have been around for ages, so... more car exhausts should be no problem, no? Especially when I choose to ignore them?

My comment is directed at our confusing historical norms. Personally I would be happy if all this nonsense would go away. Not quite sure what can be done about it though.

Seems like it would be good to have more nonprofit news organizations with credible dedication to integrity.


1440 is exactly what you’re describing. And they are wonderful.

https://join1440.com/


The corporate-loving legislation of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 [0] signed by Beej Clinton axed the idea of keeping separate the mega corporations and our source for truth. For now, we Americans are very lucky that the internet has not been outright taken over by the same actors, although YouTube sure seems to think we all want to know what boomer news has to say, for example https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=FTX .

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996


Tabloids are not different than much of the shitposting some people do on the internet. They'll take one small truth and extrapolate it into an entire learned lesson based on smoke and mirrors. The gossip end is just kind of gross to me, but I'm already the kind of person that doesn't hang out with people that tend to gossip.

IIRC the original term was coined for a specific type of misinformation where the aim is to erode trust in institutions and truth in general by bombarding people with incorrect news (kind of like a DDoS on truth). This is differentiated from salacious tabloid gossip or from propaganda (which seeks to push a specific, alternative truth).

However, now the vernacular use seems to be totally undifferentiated, yes.


Disinformation can go hand and hand with propaganda, look at the current European war. I get what you're saying, but just pointing out that it can be used in detriment to the morale on the other side of the fence.

Yes, of course

Fake news are good for society because it forces people to triple check when they wanna know something. Not all people will triple check everything, but it's better than a society of people believing whatever comes from authority.

Also censorship is bad and all that.

Thank you fake news!


Unfortunately people are not as evolved as you think. They still believe fake news.

Worse than just believing it … these days they can (nearly) instantaneously share it to zillions of other people around the world many of whom will also believe (and re-share) it, and few in that chain will bother to fact-check it themselves, and of those few, even fewer will take the time to call out the error / misinformation, and even if they do, they'll almost instantly be shouted down and ridiculed by all those who just outright refuse to see facts when they really really want to believe a lie. This of course leads the average "volunteer" fact-checker to just sooner or later give up even trying to fight the growing waves of "fake news", and keep their fact-checking to themselves; Not good for anyone.

A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes

- Mark Twain


Actually it seems that quote may have originated from Johnathan Swift not Mark Twain, although almost everyone attributes it to Mark Twain. Which is rather nicely recursive given the subject of the quote.

https://professorbuzzkill.com/twain-lie-travels/


The quote doesn't look like Swift's style of English; so I read that buzzkill article. What buzzkill attributes to Swift isn't the quote (or its origins), but the sentiment. Swift has nothing to say about how long it takes to put on shoes.

That style of English looks to me like Twain.


Well the article also says there is no evidence Mark Twain ever said it.

There are actually quite a few quotes attributed to Twain (and Einstein, and Lincoln, and many famous "others") that may or may not have been said first (or at all) by the people they're attributed to. Interesting "rabbit hole" to explore for those into that sort of thing…

This only works well if people are punished with a short feedback cycle for believing fake news. Unfortunately this is not the case, so they don't learn in time to prevent had info from causing massive damage. I'm honestly inclined to agree with you for the really obvious stuff, but covid disinformation killed a lot of people.

Reminiscent of the broken window fallacy

In Australia it's apparently legally fine for these magazines to publish false stories as they are entertainment and not news!

In the USA, MSDNC's Russia Maddow has a show that makes claims such as what if Russia attacks our power grid when it's cold and other completely stupid stories. On the other side of the aisle is [name anyone on Fox News]. In court, their defense is that no one takes their claims as truth and that it is a source of entertainment so they're not held to any standard basically whatsoever. It's so sad.

I was surprised learning from the article that MSN was considered as a respectable organization at any time in the past. My first glance long ago (around its induction), coupled with its push into the user's face, run by a software company, not any software company but Microsoft, whle there are reputable and reliable sources out there, it did not make it creadible to me. Actually was put in the way. This is the first thing I remove on getting to a new Windows install.

MSNBC was also started by Microsoft and later divested

My great Aunt use to spend her time in the 80s always seemingly reading a "news paper" that had a cover story about how Elvis was still alive.

Hysterical to me how the generation that fought REAL NAZIS were not concerned with any of this.


I always assumed this was happening to an extent already, particularly with sports. In the sports news world you get all sorts of "season previews" and various articles with "each team's strength's and weaknesses".

If you weren't a fan of big name teams you'd inevitably find with your team: coaches mentioned who weren't there anymore, players who weren't there anymore, and various outdated factoids / concerns thrown in. Some "concerns" almost felt like an AI trained on fan forums where issues fans had, but had no place in reality were raised, with even local fan forum lingo tossed in ...

If it was a person, or a script that generated content that got doctored by a person I don't know, but the patter was very clear.


That sounds like it's roughly on the level of Steven A. Smith.

This is already happening with stock "analysis" that you see on Yahoo Finance for any given symbol. For example, take a look at https://stocks.apple.com/AbKUdK1ZvSFK4NdaMwMd27w

yeah, the content on MSN has been indistinguishable from AI-generated content for a long time now, long before AI has gotten as good as it is today.

if MSN has been human-curated all this time, that's a little bit embarrasing for the humans. turning it over to the AI is hardly going to make it worse


MSDNC has always been the propaganda wing for a certain pol party and not as random as ML-generated content; their marching orders are extremely specific. Fox News is similar but way funnier in their delivery.

Funny how these days everybody seems to think that the world should be run without anybody else.

I think people are somewhat misunderstanding what's going on in this story. MSN's AI isn't generating stories wholesale like GPT-3 -- it's selecting other publications' stories from across the web for syndication, but doing it automatically after the company fired the team previously responsible for that curation process in 2020. Unfortunately, this new system is clearly not exercising good judgment about what articles or publications are credible, because of the ridiculous stuff that it's republishing from fake news sites about bigfoot, mermaids, monsters on Mars etc.

I’d like to point out this extends to the actual Windows 11 OS because they relentlessly push National-Enquirer calibre news to users. Want to get something done? Hit Windows key and start searching for that app you want to use—only to be force-fed a bunch of celebrity gossip because it prefix-matches the search term and they want to sell Ad impressions.

I used to have high hopes for some of Microsoft’s innovations like Zune, Windows Phone, connect, Rosalyn—that glimmer of open-source-hope from the Evil Empire.

But it’s obvious now they are not really good at anything in the consumer space anymore: Hopping on the ad bandwagon because that’s what Google does; stealing the OS X taskbar placement for no good reason; turning the OS into the spyware folks used to dread at the turn of the millennium; now we need apps to remove Windows features just to use our computers.


Oddly enough the thing driving more advanced users to linux now isn’t that Linux is so good. It’s that MS and Windows are so bad.

Linux isn't bad, especially Ubuntu with the Mate interface but every time I use my employer's Windows machine, it's like "holy crap, if I was dependent on this at home, I'd be like serf or something".

I disagree. Ubuntu with the MATE interface feels familiar for people coming from windows as it's a very traditional veneer on the surface but it quickly breaks down. Pretty soon your hacking some random text file config that you'll forget about in a month and will be incompatible with your next upgrade.

I'm a long time Linux user but I've recently started using Windows for development. It's actually surprisingly decent. It's disgusting all the spam you get in a fresh install but after 5 mins of turning that off youre left with a clean feeling OS

The biggest thing that brings me back to windows is that Linux _still_ completely halts when hitting low memory situations. It's just embarrassing. Accidentally add an infinite memory leak to a program I'm building or open one to many tabs and your system grinds yo a halt while thrashing pages in and out of memory. Windows is capable of figuring out which processes I'm actively trying to use and somehow prevent trashing from making the system unusable.


> The biggest thing that brings me back to windows is that Linux _still_ completely halts when hitting low memory situations.

Had this issue on a low-memory laptop but it got better after I enabled zram. A leak will eventually exhaust memory, but I guess it should compress well depending on the leak.

But it is not a complete solution (once exhaustion is reached it a freeze would probably still happen) and not very user-friendly either.


Yeah as a developer I can't guarantee that I'll never write an infinite loop that leaks memory, and I really don't want my only recourse to be restarting my machine. That's a pretty brutal dev cycle lol.

Does cgroups help here?

I've not had that as a problem in a while.

Either the the kernel oom or the systemd oom-killer take care of it.


You can do that on windows, with GPU compute shaders and syncs - at least in that case on Linux, you can switch to terminal to kill the process. On windows, can't click, to kill a process you need the GPU to render your process managing window...

I mean sure, but that's pretty edge case for me, I'm not developing GPU compute sync.

Large compiles on Windows make the system unusable in a way I never saw om Linux. Process crearion time spikes and chrome tabs to different domains begin gaking 10+ seconds to open.

> Pretty soon your hacking some random text file config that you'll forget about in a month and will be incompatible with your next upgrade.

Sure, but at least you can hack the random file, and you can easily document and back that up.

I much prefer that to having to edit some weirdly named registry key that has unexpected interactions with some unrelated settings panel, but only in one of the two settings places. Oh, and bonus points for that key being removed and / or changed by a random upgrade.

Most Windows GUI stuff breaks down badly when you try to do more advanced things. You quickly start needing to edit at least the group policy, if not applying powershell scripts.


> Most Windows GUI stuff breaks down badly when you try to do more advanced things.

Define "more advanced."

I hear what you're saying. The upgrade path in both can be very broken when you change things. But I find that in windows more of the options you need are provided by the settings GUIs and handle upgrades well. Most linux packages and OS settings start and stop with the text file config, or provide GUIs as loose wrappers over text configs which rarely support upgrade flows.

Providing upgrade support for user's arbitrary text configs is significantly harder than for a more restrictive and structured settings database.


> Define "more advanced."

The most basic: tell Windows the hardware clock uses UTC because I dual boot with Linux (registry).

A bit more advanced: Enable TPM + PIN for BitLocker (group policy).

At work: set up split-view DNS on a Windows Server (PowerShell).

> But I find that in windows more of the options you need are provided by the settings GUIs and handle upgrades well.

I beg to differ. I feel like every other month I have to go back and tell Windows that no, I don't want it to consider tabs in Edge as different windows when I alt-tab. It's one of the first things I change. Yesterday I had to go do it again on my gaming PC. Sure, this can be done comfortably in the settings GUI, but it doesn't seem to stick for some reason.

> Providing upgrade support for user's arbitrary text configs is significantly harder than for a more restrictive and structured settings database.

Oh, I definitely agree with this, and I think that Apple's approach to configuration (as in "there's none") is probably based on this.

But I think that Windows is pretty much the poster child for configuration broken up in a zillion different places. I mean, the registry is a meme for a reason, right?


I'd agree that the decline of windows is a bigger boon for Linux that Linux itself. While Linux isn't bad it certainly isn't good.

The combination of Ubuntu and Mate is one of the worse to start with. Sure, it feels familiar but it's just Linux kiddie edition. Users tend to out grow it quickly or get frustrated with it breaking down from all the Linux goodness.

Don't get ne started on trying to use Ubuntu on any hardware released in the last 3 years...


Have you tried Garuda MATE?

Ubuntu has a few very serious problems, coming from a normal user from windows (wouldn't call myself a power user):

-No obvious way to make a filetype .xxx be opened always by program YYY

-An update can easily break things. Sometimes everything.

-Mouse doesn't work properly by default: sensitivity seems so weird, and there is no option in Settings to adjust number of lines mouse scroll skips. I have spent hours in the past (some years ago) to try and make mouse just like windows, but I wasn't able to do it.

-Not a single good alternative for notepad++

I'm gonna try windows 11 when I have the time. Dual boot is not comfortable at all and maybe I can stop using ubuntu interface forever and use Windows Terminal to do the stuff I need linux.


"Not a single good alternative for notepad++"

I had the same pain, using np++ in wine was not really working, but maybe this has improved.

SciTE works and is what I used years ago, but was not on par with Notepad++.

But Sublime Text works on linux and it works nice, though it is not free, but when you consider windows, that seems not to be a problem.


Right click file, Open with another application. To set default Right click file, properties, Open With, Set As Default

- No obvious way to make a filetype .xxx be opened always by program YYY

Answer: In Caja, Go to properties dialogue and choose the "open with" tab. You can edit the option there. This is a method consistent basic GUI guidelines as they've existed for 20 yeas.

-An update can easily break things. Sometimes everything.

Answer: I've used cheap laptops with Ubuntu for 10 years. Literally never had that problem.

-Mouse doesn't work properly by default: sensitivity seems so weird, and there is no option in Settings to adjust number of lines mouse scroll skips. I have spent hours in the past (some years ago) to try and make mouse just like windows, but I wasn't able to do it.

Answer: Pointer speed is set in the control center, under mouse preferences. The control center is a standard menu option. It sets most simple UI choices.

-Not a single good alternative for notepad++

Answer: Pluma is default for editing simple text files. Many commercial programmers editors are available (I use QT Creator). Notepad++ is halfway between simple editor and programmers product that doesn't come with Windows but some people. Lots of people swear by vi and emacs too, standards of the Linux world. And naturally, someone actually has setup notepad++ itself for Linux: https://itsfoss.com/notepad-plus-plus-linux/


The UX of UI on Linux can't compare with Windows, at least for me and I use Ubuntu with KDE (tried other GUI's as well) on my hope laptop and workstation and Windows 11 on my work laptop.

Windows just feels smoother and applying settings is more straightforward in most cases.


UX of UI on linux is usually just not consistent, because it is often a thrown in mix of different styles(from different projects) and the pro users don't use the UI for config, but the terminal, so don't notice or care too much.

Tellingly, those pro users would never choose to migrate back to Windows for a more consistent UI.

The UI of current Windows editions is an extraordinary mess. I use a new, low-end Windows machine just to play DVD for a disable person I'm working for. It not up to the task out of the box and without VLC things would have been problematic.

And just consider Windows has two different command bars.


I sometimes think about going from 10 to 11. Thanks for steering me straight.

No one is going to make a movie about this, but they should probably make a warning documentary

I was actually considering buying a windows computer instead of a mac (which has it's own set of problems), I'll pass after hearing this.

Buy a Windows computer and then put Linux on it. If you need Windows stuff just boot up a VM. It's the only way to own your hardware and your OS.

I have several Linux computers, I need a native way of running MS Office for work so I need either a Mac or Windows machine. I haven't looked at a local windows VM, is that something I can do legally? Does it mean I need to buy a windows license?

The other option, which I'm lukewarm about is what I think is called Windows 365 where I can pay monthly to access a windows VM in a browser. The challenge is needing constant, good internet access to access trivial stuff like Word.


> I haven't looked at a local windows VM, is that something I can do legally? Does it mean I need to buy a windows license?

Yes, you can do it legally and yes, you need a license. I'm not sure how that works if your physical computer came with a license (like moste PCs do).

> The other option, which I'm lukewarm about is what I think is called Windows 365 where I can pay monthly to access a windows VM in a browser. The challenge is needing constant, good internet access to access trivial stuff like Word.

I've never tried that, but for my basic Office 365 needs (for work) I've found that the actual apps running in a browser are great. I actually find outlook works much better than the local version.


IIRC, Windows licenses are tied to processors, and assuming the license allows it, running a Windows VM on computer that shipped with a Windows license shouldn't be a problem.

A Windows OEM license is tied to motherboard. A retail license can be transferred to a new computer if you uninstall the old copy.

Microsoft provides VM images that you can use for free.

Take a look at https://github.com/casualsnek/cassowary. If your license key doesn't work/you don't have one, they really aren't that expensive. Might also work without any activation at all.

> The challenge is needing constant, good internet access to access trivial stuff like Word.

Microsoft 365 is prolly what you're thinking of. It's all browser apps or PWAs (or whatever you may call online cloud shit), not a windows VM. If you've heard of Google Workspaces you have the right idea. Comes with Windows versions of the office apps that can be installed and run locally instead of using the online cloud shit, they tend to be more feature complete than the online cloud shit, and, unlike the online cloud shit, obviously don't work on Linux without some creativity.


I have a Win10 Lenovo Thinkpad. I want to switch to Linux, but I'd like to keep my Win10 system. Is there a way I can install a VM underneath this pre-installed Win10 system, so that I can still launch Windows while I'm transitioning?

Installing a VM, and then installing licensed Windows over that, isn't an option, because I don't want Win11, and you can't buy Win10 licences any more.


You can just dual boot/install Linux alongside Windows

I recently bought a Lenovo windows PC to run some software I needed that was windows only. It shipped with windows 11 Pro. Figured it wasn't going to be any worse than the win 10 Pro I have to eat on my corp laptop. So I fired it up and was disappointed and though all the crapware was vendor installed. So I did a clean install of windows 11 pro from microsoft. Actually it was WORSE than the vendor shipped version.

It is supposed to be a professional operating system but really you're being force fed dog shit because you have no choice.

I spent a couple of weeks migrating all my stuff away and will sell the bloody thing on ebay when I get around to it.


Lenovo Thinkpads are the gold standard for Linux laptops. So you could install Linux on it, since you've got it anyway.

Also OpenBSD.

Given that their first sentence says they only bought the laptop to run windows only software, that probably isn't an option.

It’s a desktop and I’ve got a MacBook Pro already. I quite frankly despise Linux on the desktop after trying to use it yearly for the last 25 years. Server fine. Desktop no thanks.

So - my Win11 journey has been spotty.

I'll spare you the details of my work machines.

But, I bought an Aya Neo as a mobile gaming PC, which never worked right with Win10. Like, really fucking weird shit that should never happen. External keyboards and mice not being able to load a driver kind of weird shit. I considered doing a fresh install of Win10, but decided, hey, Maybe I'll upgrade it to Win10 Pro via my ample MSDN licenses I get through work, and then do the Win11 upgrade.

Worked like a charm. Fixed every issue I had. Who knows why!

Anyways.

Win11 isn't bad after a year+. The stuff that gets in the way is the dumb shit they do with Windows Explorer to move options out of the way for power users. Think: All the cool shit you have set up when you right-click on something in Explorer.

I have also turned off all the telemetry options using WPD. No ads anywhere, and some of the stuff which is built in is pretty great: Windows Terminal, Tabs in Windows Explorer.

I find it to be a mixed bag. I don't hate it. I still prefer Win10 so far, but far less so than a year ago when compatibility issues were there.


Registry hacking is a moving target. They will auto update you into "accepting" spyware again. You need Windows Enterprise to actually disable that stuff.

If I needed a Windows machine I would stick to 7. That feels like before MS went Google.


Yeah sorry. I said Pro, but realized I used an Enterprise key.

> Hit Windows key and start searching for that app you want to use—only to be force-fed a bunch of celebrity gossip

I, too, found that start menu has degraded in utility, mostly that it's not deterministic anymore so I can't just type windows key + prefix + enter to open the program, but I have to type more letters in and wait for the AI to stop re-ordering entries before I hit enter. Jeez. Found this solution, good way to spend 5 bucks:

https://www.startisback.com/


> force-fed a bunch of celebrity gossip

The weather widget now also serves this and stock market tickers. Making it slower and annoying.

Works in Win10, yay.



When is someone gonna compile projects like this into a reasonable "distro" for Windows?

;-)



We'll eventually get the year of Linux on the Desktop, not because of Linux, but because macOS and Windows just got worse!

It will be more like a quarter year. As bad as Mac and Windows have become Linux is still Linux and isn't really any more ready for primetime time than it's ever been. A majority of non-dev types who try Linux go back to their old OS.

Linux is never really going to succeed on the desktop because it isn't really well suited for it. The BSD's have a better shot should anyone put the effort in to one.


Isn’t that just MacOS?

> isn't really any more ready for primetime time than it's ever been

It definitely got better since times when you needed CLI to install it (for example)


I don't know, man. It seems to me that, at least on "standard" hardware, support is better on Linux.

I've got some late-2021 HP laptops, nothing particularly fancy, standard fare "enterprise" things. They both have weird issues on Windows. They both worked absolutely perfectly on Linux ever since I got them, brand new, almost a year ago.

One of them required me to do an absurd plug/unplug dance with my external monitor and HP dock to get 4k@60 working. Some Intel driver updates fixed this a month or so ago (so one year in). It still won't drive 4k@60 on another dock (cheap Chinese model, though). Linux doesn't care and just works. The cheap dock also works perfectly on the other laptop (AMD instead of Intel) with Windows.

One year in, the windows install (11 22h2) still doesn't recognize the touchpad nor track point. Worked OOB on Linux.

On the other laptop, only recently did Windows start to recognize my webcam. Sometimes. It worked since day one on Linux, IR and all.

The other day, I've tried a newer model, with an Intel 12th gen. The thing's fan would be constantly on while sitting on the Windows desktop doing nothing. Completely silent under Linux.


It's been my experience that if someone's use case can be solved with ChromeOS, then modern Linux with a web browser and something like Plasma would suit them well, too.

Microsoft is always finding new peaks of bad ideas. Its a sum of multiple smaller decisions along down a chain but clearly no one along the way decided to ask if it was a good idea before it got combined into the whole.

Accidentally mousing over the unsolicited weather widget in the Task Bar, and having Alex Jones' face plastered over the screen, was the lowlight of my last week. It wasn't on even my computer and I was appalled by it.

Holy shit, I can't believe what I'm reading. Imagine buying a house and the seller comes in and starts nailing adverts to your wall. Here I am complaining about Ubuntu's use of snap and I don't even realize how good I have it.

When you push the windows button it has some kinda delay and it’s so shitty like u can’t start typing for what u want to find until it first pings some website for some metadata.

That also happens for the settings button when you click the network / volume widget next to the clock. The button will animate, but nothing will happen for a while.

There's also my favorite: notifications appear with a bubble to the right of the clock. When you dismiss them, the bubble goes away and the clock moves to the right. Occasionally, it moves a bit too much, so you can only see half of it.


I think you can disable a lot of this using https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 - it’s amazing you can disable so much of this but it’s a shame that Microsoft’s defaults have so many ads and clutter. Not to mention, the first thing I do when installing a fresh copy of Windows 11 is move the start button back to the left where it belongs…

>But it’s obvious now they are not really good at anything in the consumer space anymore: Hopping on the ad bandwagon because that’s what Google does

"The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste. And I don't mean that in a small way, I mean that in a big way, in the sense that they don't think of original ideas, and they don't bring much culture into their products."

-Steve Jobs

Now of course everyone steals stuff, and Jobs did do his share of stealing, but I suppose people can agree he had a sense of taste.

I think with MS it's like when people write stories, a lot of what people write are ideas taken elsewhere littered with stuff that is original to them. But some people you get the idea that they are cookie-cutter writers, they think stories about alligators are big in the market right now (no idea why that is) so I am going to write a story about an alligator that attacks (spins wheel) people on a plane! And then because they know something about writing they identify parts where they need to put some kind of thing in and they sort of choose at random between many things other people have done.

And that's how MS works I think, although things are not totally random because they're a corporation so are decisions weighted to "can it make money?".

So they think "we need something here in this area that is dynamic, not always the same" what do we put in there? (spin the wheel) News Stories and Ads!


Its a rather classless society in that non of them have class.

maybe they're functional.

Worst of all is seeing people defend these unacceptable practices and even Microsoft as a company. When will people understand the importance of having a computer system that doesn't answer to corporate interests? A system that is truly ours?

To me their biggest sin is senselessly ruining previously available and adequate functionality and usability. The aforementioned taskbar is a typical example. It not only force grouping icons (instances) of the same program but makes it mandatory, eliminating the choice of turning off grouping. This copuled with sh&t, truly sh&t level develpment when not the last used (frequent) instance gets activated on click but perhaps the last/first opened, "inventing" slow preview that not always work (during an active Teams chat it does not) needing a second click to get to where you want, but also removing title from this tiny undistinguishable preview for same layout instances making the choice even harder. I frequently need to work with several instances of the same software and my productivity is worse now just because of this maddening incompetently formed central thing of the taskbar. It was good, worked, but then they worked hard to ruin it. Ruined it and made it mandatory! How stupid is this?! It causes loss for my company: I work slower than could been, also making me mad, distracting, which also takes time to get back the focus. Less work can be achieved in the same amount of time. Costs money for the user, considerable amount of money. Need to look for (available, interestingly, the demand is that high, they make good money on this) auxiliary software that brings back essential functions (just to ruin those software too with a Windows update as underlying mechnism and tricks the auxiliary software relies on changes).

Software is supposed to ease and help the work we have to do, not making it harder! They seems to be careless and arrogant (forcing their choice without self critique), which is very dangerous combination.

All other usual things like incompletely reorganizing functionality/settings into yet another different form and location again and gain just to distract the known workflow, the continuous damaging refactoring pile on the top of these. But this taskbar thing, the very essential first door into the system, its destruction into inadequate pile of sh&t is a serious crime. Unluckily I am (yet) forced to use this in work, at home I free myself from Windows. Some friends, who can do, demanded to stay on the earlier verion than 11 from their organization until they finaly complete the taskbar to the usability level already achieved more than 10 years ago.


Not to forget TCPA through the backdoor. Aka TPM 2.0 required. In the 2000s we demonstrated and fought against this. 20 years later people are so apathetic and M$ just decides that TPM 2.0 is a required hardware feature.

I only use Windows for playing games. Other irreplaceable software would be DAWs.

I don't see why I should have to buy a new computer, a "cheap" AMD-only system would cost 2.5k eur. An Intel/Nvidia system 5k, because of the ridiculous Nvidia GPU price and the high (600+ eur) motherboard price if you want ECC RAM.

What do I gain? A computer that is potentially controlled by external sources. Where someone else decides what I can and can't do with it.

Why hasn't there been an outrage when they said TPM 2.0 was required?

I will not "upgrade". I'm sure they'll find a way to force me. The games that I play don't require top notch hardware. Those "AAA" titles are honestly 100% completely uninteresting. 80 eur for NFS unbound where they removed the coop aspect of the story game vs the previous version? Are they on crack? A bunch of remakes and remasters? Pokémon, Mario aka console titles? I don't feel like they're even trying anymore. I'm probably too old and no longer part of the target audience.

MSN, I never read it anyway.

I will not install a consumer OS that requires a TPM chip.


IIRC there was quite a bit of outrage about the CPU requirements for Windows 11.

I expect this is because those kinds of stories acquire engagement. These bots don’t get bogged down in the minutiae of “truth”, or “credibility”. It’s all metrics. The content is a vehicle for these metrics.

Real or not, Bigfoot gets clicks.


> Unfortunately, this new system is clearly not exercising good judgment about what articles or publications are credible

And that’s different from meatbag publishers how exactly?


That somehow "we" decided to not hold software (or its creators) liable for bad behavior while for humans there's at least a semblance of responsibility.

"Oh that malfunctioning server that caused an outage to hospital infrastructure? Yeah, Software is hard, isn't it?"

Somehow shitty software is acceptable as an explanation for things, and as soon they are explained, they are understandable, and somehow we decided that makes them okay.


Oh no I completely agree, I’m just suggesting that the human news/media curators aren’t much better than AI which pics up fake news.

Take the current ‘Putin fell down the stairs and pooped himself’ story, search around for any evidence that’s actually true and it’s you who will be having a shitty time.


None

Did anyone notice?

I would classify this sort of info-entertainment masquerading as journalism as “zombie news” or perhaps “garbage pail news”.

It lacks a sufficiently insidious motive to be considered “fake” news, although an argument could be made that it erodes trust in traditional media outlets when a publication with significant reach goes fallow.

It has all the trappings of a media outlet but none of the editorial brains.


After two years of pandemic/polarization/climate disaster/war/recession/etc. doom and gloom I'm kind of ready for some reporting on mermaids and Bigfoot.

Maybe they should bring back the print edition of the Weekly World News.

MSN might also consider adding The Onion since it seems about as accurate as many published news sources.


This doesn't seem like a credible news source.

I'd rather have machines writing fake news than humans, personally.

What is MSN supposed to be these days? Like Google/Apple News?

It used to be their dialup service, what a weird relic to keep floating around.


Shockingly, it may still be a dial up internet service.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/msn-dial-up-internet-acces...


Given that real news rarely has real relevance to our daily lives, does this really matter? 90% of news could be fan fiction, and nothing would change.

I thought this was a spoof article until crosschecking it. Lol. The AI feedback loop has begun. Soon, most articles will be rewording of other AI generated articles. I'm not sure how to feel about it. In theory, it might be a step of from current status quo once the AI is trained up to journalistic standards.

I had to quit using DuckDuckGo's News service since it puts MSN garbage at the top of all its search results (DDG is just a wrapper around Bing, AFAIK).

MSNDC have reported far more dangerous lies than a swimming Bigfoot. AI oddly has more integrity at times because it is not necessarily beholden to its handlers as a lot of mainstream media pundits are.

@dang would it better to change the title to suggest that its propagating instead of writing/publishing..

Soon every piece of information will have cryptographic claim(s) attached.

Everything that can attach it will have cryptographic identity.

Everything will likely evolve into some (weighted/probabilistic?) crypto-tree of trust. There won't be absolute truth, only truth scores according to some defined trust sets/trees.

Imagine fake news, pictures, videos, voice generated at scale, indistinguishable by humans from real information. It's easy when we talk about monsters on Mars, but not so much if it talked about some spectral analysis of organic compound deposits etc.

We're going to be flooded with this stuff very soon and people will have to employ flat-earther's approach to rationality [0] if we don't decorate information with crypto-metadata or find another solution to this problem.

Imagine if we're making mistake in 1 fake out of 1mln cases now and what we'll do if we start having 1 true out of 1mln fake pieces of information available. Generating fake information will be very cheap and generation available to anybody.

You won't know anymore if this new Gruffalo book was written by authors or generated by AI. You can only guess that this new Beatles song about twitter is probably fake (but looks so real) etc.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8DQSM-b2cc


It's the "BS singularity". AIs trained on BS from the internet write even more BS, which gets published on the internet, until the entire internet is BS.

The news here for me: MSN still exist!

I can't believe that this news publisher is using artificial intelligence to write their articles. I understand that technology is constantly evolving and we should be embracing it, but using AI to write news articles is just a mistake. Not only does it take away jobs from journalists, but it also leads to mistakes in the articles. I recently read an article from this publisher that had several errors and it just goes to show that AI cannot replace the human touch and expertise in journalism. I hope that this publisher reconsiders their decision and relies on humans to produce accurate and reliable news.

[written by ChatGPT]


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