I wonder how increases in remote work acceptance will affect emigration. If you allow remote work from anywhere it would seem like moving to another country on some sort of visa would be an instant pay increase using the foreign earned income tax break.
Except that you have to pay taxes in that foreign country. Many of them have higher taxes than the US, and in any case, having to file taxes twice is not fun.
Many countries (including Israel, where I live) have tax treaties with the US. You still need to file US taxes every year, but any money you pay toward your country of residence counts toward your American taxes, up to a certain ceiling.
The fact that US income tax is lower than those in most other countries means that such people will almost never paying any actual tax -- and, believe it or not, are even entitled to a tax refund from the US government.
So yes, it's a pain that the US makes me file tax forms every year. Or more realistically, the US makes me pay an accountant to handle this for me. But the odds of my having to pay income tax to the US are pretty slim, until/unless I'm making a ton of money, in which case I'm sure that my accountant will think of new clever ways to avoid doing so.
> The fact that US income tax is lower than those in most other countries means that such people will almost never paying any actual tax -- and, believe it or not, are even entitled to a tax refund from the US government.
After you exhaust the foreign-earned income credit (which is roughly 90K), you're basically paying the higher of US and local tax. And it's not always lower e.g. Americans in Hong Kong will end up paying tax.
I've never heard of anyone getting a refund from this.
The netherlands at least has a "highly skilled migrant" system wherein you are refunded a chunk of your dutch taxes. This results in paying a similar amount to the US.
> believe it or not, are even entitled to a tax refund from the US government.
From the IRS website:
> Your foreign tax credit cannot be more than your total U.S. tax liability multiplied by a fraction. The numerator of the fraction is your taxable income from sources outside the United States. The denominator is your total taxable income from U.S. and foreign sources.
So no, one is not entitled to a tax refund, because the credit cannot be more than the total U.S. tax liability.
Other than president who can you vote for? Who represents a US citizen's interests when living abroad? Some never have been to the Unites States and have no home state. Yet they are required to file and pay taxes.
Parent's point is that your Oregonian congressman is not looking out for your interests but those of his resident-constituents. If emigrants comprise a population roughly equivalent to Maryland, why don't they get their own representation?
His point was "taxation without representation", which is false. Your point is more nuanced and interesting, I think. I suspect it'd take changes to the constitution to enact, so is likely not feasible, unfortunately.
Apparently even in the US the Democratic National Convention gives state-level recognition to Democrats Abroad, an organization for overseas Democrat voters.
In France we have I think 10 or 12 seats in the House and roughly the same in the Senate representing 5 regions of the world. You register and vote in your embassy or consulate. So expats do have representative looking for them and their specific needs. And it seems fair to me. And as far as I know, expats don't pay french taxes. So clearly a pretty different focus on that matter.
Interesting, this could add another layer of craziness on top of gerrymandering to nonproportional winner takes all repentation. Somebody seems to have had a bright moment when requiring that "parents and/or legal guardians" condition..
Back on topic, I generally feel a little uneasy with the question of the migrant vote. Denying the vote to emigrants? Not good. Denying the vote to immigrants? Not good. Migrants (with inherently less commitment to a single state) effectively getting more votes per capita than non-migrants? Not good either! This is certainly just a highly abstract problem that probably deserves quotes ("problem"), but it should not be completely ignored in a world of ever-increasing international mobility.
Nah, of course not. It's not even practical... The amount of jobs that could be done remotely (e.g. programming, design, etc.) are just a tiny fraction.
For comparison, when asked in the UK Parliament, the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs gave an estimate for the number of British nationals living abroad of around 13 million people. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/v...
Which given the UK population of 64 million, is a massive diaspora and completely dwarfs the 7.5 million foreign-born residents in the UK.
edit - these figures led me to the sobering conclusion that here in the UK we should really be keeping quiet about immigration and hope nobody notices
It's the legacy of colonialism. There is an assumed right for Brits to go anywhere we want. It looks like a majority of the Brits abroad are in Commonwealth countries, which is sort of what I'd expect. Over a million in the US!
If you look closely at UK newspaper comments/letters complaining about immigration, quite a few of them are from people living in Spain. And one of the more notorious anti-immigrant columnists lives in Florida, IIRC.
- a positive net immigration rate into the UK has been critical in continuing to develop our economy,
- those people from the UK living in Spain will, mostly, be retired people,
- those newspaper comments will complain bitterly about immigrants not contributing, stealing welfare, and so on. Which is exactly what those people complaining are doing, and exactly not what the people they complain about are doing!
Friend of my dad's moved to Italy, learned to speak the language fluently and spent every day of his 20 years or so there working hard and being an upstanding citizen. He started a family there, but because he missed some paperwork early on, his kids never became Italians and neither did he or his wife.
So yeah his kids were born in Italy, all grew up in Italy, speak Italian fluently (natively), went to school there etc, but eventually they all moved away as they don't have citizenship. They're now mostly in the US. They run businesses and all have advanced degrees.
My dad spoke with him a few times about getting citizenship but it'd be a very long process. They've essentially committed to a life elsewhere.
In other words, there seems to be absolutely no reason for them not to be Italians, other than some kafkaesque messed up bureaucracy that servers no actual purpose.
This kind of describes immigration bureaucracy anywhere and everywhere.
Here's Linus Torvalds on some of the hassles he had: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3655 (search for green card). That's the kind of person you should be laying out the red carpet for.
Weird, where you from? I got both (Greek and Italian) citizenships the moment I was born (my mother is from Sicily) and I was born (and currently live) in Greece.
i have been working on it for 3 years now .... they just started charging 350 EU for the appointment at the embassy, even if they do not give you the citizenship
Immigration is complex but what I hate is the BS and half lies that are told like this author does.
"We debate immigration and border controls for Mexico ad nauseum, yet, on the whole, the typical immigrant isn’t Mexican."
Like many newspapers the author is trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigrant. The reason we are talking about border controls is because yes most come from Mexico. The typical person who is here illegally is Mexican, over 60% are from Mexico. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_Unit... Add in central America and around 75% of people coming illegally are from southern border.
I can understand their motivation. What I can't stand is trying to present BS.
When they author is trying to obscure facts one must wonder what other stats he is omitting or only half presenting.
As for taxes. Yes taxes suck. They also fund a ton of things that make American #1 in many areas. Should Americans abroad pay as much as American at home, of course not. But they clearly should still pay. You have a great passport and can come back to a country that has a wealth of opportunities that are not available in most other places and in some cases no where else. Why should you get to pay nothing while the rest of Americans maintain the great country for you to come back when you please? Maybe we should make it cheaper for people to renounce their citizenship, they are not needed.
Note: I should have made two post splitting comment on the immigration stats and taxes in to two posts to see the up/down vote difference based on the issues.
> You have a great passport and can come back to a country that has a wealth of opportunities that are not available in most other places and in some cases no where else.
could be said about many other countries which don't tax non-residents on their financial affairs in the country in which they've chosen to live. So I think some find it hard to see how the US can justify it.
Naturally it isn't. But those other countries maintain their roads, schools etc. etc. without taxing non-residents on their financial affairs in other countries. The main point is the difference between how the US handles the tax issue vs. almost all other countries.
Now you mention it, renouncing citizenship seems relatively costly compared to e.g. the UK, though I have no idea what the average cost is for renunciation. Perhaps the UK is abnormally cheap! (EDIT: Should probably have pointed out that it's currently £144, or about $215.)
It would seem a shame if people felt they needed to renounce citizenship to avoid hassle/tax. Of course, some may argue that if they want to renounce at all, then perhaps they're not committed enough anyway, but I wouldn't argue that.
It actually costs a great deal more than that. You have to pay 5 years of expected future taxes upfront, in addition to the processing fees. This can be an enormous sum, depending on your income sources. If you just have a regular job and no investments, it is easily more than a whole year's salary. It is insane. In Norway, you generally have to renounce your prior citizenship to get Norwegian citizenship, but they consider it such a financial burden here to renounce US citizenship that they sometimes let you keep it (varies by individual situation).
You seem to be putting the US on too high of a pedestal.
Reality is the US is not all that and you can get most if not all the opportunities you're talking about somewhere else maybe even better healthcare and unemployment benefits without having to pay tax to a country you're not even using the public services of.
I have multiple citizenship and I would find it unacceptable if any of the countries demanded more then their fair share or charges.
Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't.
Having to pay 2K to renounce you citizenship is crazy and the fact that a lot of people still do shows how bad the policy and taxes are.
Reality is owning a US citizenship in a foreign country when you have no intention of coming back is detrimental to your financial well being.
I'm not much for patriotism and other such niceties looking at it as a cold business transaction it is detrimental to the owner with very few benefits compared to other countries.
> Having to pay to renew you passport or processing other paperwork is acceptable paying tax to a country you don't live in isn't.
One could argue that growing up in the US gave you a lot of benefits (infrastructure, education, healthcare, security and so on...), and that paying tax (even if not living there anymore) is a reasonable price for this.
I agree that from a practical point of view, it makes sense to shop around. I just disagree with the argument we hear sometimes "I don't owe anything to my country". It's not the same to be born in the US than let say a poor african country.
I understand that major problem with taxes is how complicated it is. Accountancy fee could be thousands dolars even if yoy pay zero taxs.. Some foreign banks even refuse to open bank accounts to US citizens, because of complications.
I understand that major problem with taxes is how complicated it is. Accountancy fee could be thousands dolars even if yoy pay zero taxs.. Some foreign banks even refuse to open bank accounts to US citizens, because of complications.
What exactly is US 'number 1' in? Income inequality? Incarceration rate? Yes, I suppose those things do need a lot of money to fund.
US passport a great passport? I don't think so. Is it a schengen passport? No. Does it allow easy movement to commonwealth countries? No (it isn't a UK passport.)
I know quite a lot of first generation immigrants who call locals "foreigners." Seems especially common among east asians, I always assumed it's just a translation of language that makes sense in (eg) China (non-chinese = foreigners) that doesn't make literal sense in the new context but just stays a part of the language. Not everything is malicious.
Actually no. I want to live at least for a short time in US, so I will either try to get some of the visas or start a company there, or hope to win the green card lottery or any other legal venue. I would never under any circumstances cross a border illegal or without respecting the country borders and laws.
Crossing a border/ living somewhere without legal permit is direct attack against the sovereignty of a country. And that is why I will support deporting (or shooting while crossing the border) any person that enters without a valid visa at a valid border entry port worldwide.
Americans living abroad are usually in possession of full stack of legal documentation allowing them to live there.
Hmm ... South Korea is not a terrible place to be born. I was born in a country that has a track record of concentration camps and shooting defectors to the west. Problem?
I consider myself an expat at the moment because while I have no plans to move back to the US, I also don't plan on renouncing my citizenship. But I use that definition for people from other countries as well - I know people from Australia, the UK, Germany, India, Japan, etc. who I consider to be expats. If you're willing to give up your citizenship, then you're an emigrant in my eyes.
But I'm also getting much closer to being willing to give up my US citizenship... The only benefit is that I can decide to go back to the US if necessary, and given the political crap there, that's an increasingly depressing thought.
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