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Your claim is that the government have unfettered access to ALL the data.

Can you provide a link to your claim or it is just your opinion because there is no proof of that?



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You don't seriously think that the government wouldn't have access to this data stream?

Anyone operating under the assumption that their government doesn't already have unfettered, at-will access to all their data is deluding themselves. News like this should come as a surprise to no one, least of all the technically literate crowd here.

The goverment just forces ISPs and companys to hand over data. It has happened, it is happening, your argument is invalid.

Hehe, given that you have been constantly attacking me so far, I think it's the other way around: I think you feel you are somehow superior to me. :)

You also need to learn to quote properly since I did not claim anyone to be "stupid."

Also, it has not been shown that the government has stolen anything. People are upset that the government has an indirect mechanism to access their data. And I am saying that giving third-party your data implies that other entities will get to it if they want it.

Not looking forward to your ad-hominem reply. ;)


So they don't share data with the government? Tell us more.

If the government is using the data to bypass a restriction then that same government is unlikely to create a law to change that.

Seems like a problem that will never be fixed, on purpose.


The point at the beginning of the press release is that gigantic database doesn't exist. According to the government, they only collect data that has been authorized by a court, which includes large scale metadata collection like call logs or email headers passing through international cable landing sites in the US (collection that stopped in 2011 according to the leaked documents) together with full data with realtime monitoring from certain US-based internet companies for specific users under a surveillance court order.

Access to that data is severely restricted and audited according to this document.


hmm Cell phones in everyone pocket, Echo / Home Devices, etc etc etc

Keep believing the government has no access to this data..


I'm sure they won't be able to deanonymize the data at the government's behest.

I don't see how you can be certain that they don't store the data if government can easily force them to and make them shut up about it.

Rights are being violated simply by the government accessing the information

If they didn't anonymize the data, or tried but failed to, then we can hold them to account for that.

But the government didn't create this door or open this door. Whether or not they access this data, it's there to be accessed. Might as well use it for public good, and create a framework for using it safely.


There are 2 issues in this:

1) Governments have law and warrants allowing them to get those data.

2) Companies with a lot of data are complying with those warrants.

The question is: can we fix #2 without fixing #1?


You are completely misguided then:

1. You consider the government as a singular entity. It's a group of people. In that circumstance, it's as secure as the lowest denominator of person, which in a government is low.

2. You're find for them retaining your data, then implementing a law, then using it against you?

3. There are plenty of cases where the government have abused data that has been entrusted to them. There is no commercial motivation via competition for them to do a good job. You are effectively contracting out to a monopoly.

4. There is no absolute security either and it should be in your own hands. The moment you contract it out, you're morally responsible for the competence of who you contracted it out to, yet the government isn't an entity you can easily take to court nor seek compensation from.

5. Keys are complicated to distribute. Do you expect this to be 100% effective?

Consider these a little further then check your opinion against the facts on the table.


Maybe the government having access to all of your data....

If other government owns the data, no laws can be applied to them in war times or from preventing to gather intelligence.

Not that this should close the argument, but having worked at one of the large data analytics startups that works very closely with government, it's laughable what the government is capable of doing with your data.

I'm not worried one bit, as we had the best technology available. And with the amount of data being generated, it's basically impossible for them to arbitrarily find something unless they're specifically looking for it. Privacy by bad technology and hard problems.


Government data should either be entirely open to anyone freely, or not available except with a warrant. This middle ground is very scummy.

> The government simply can't process all the data they collect.

This is only a matter of time.

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