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You don't need a driver in the car for level 4. That is level 3 and below.


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There's gotta be a level 3.5 here. Cars almost always don't require a driver and can safely stop and transfer to a driver when they do.

Your driver must be a real level 4 driver.

Level 4 doesn't require driver change over. Level 4 is "it works perfectly on highways and in major cities". Level 4 is awesome!

Level 5 is "all cars in the entire world don't have steering wheels anymore". Yeah, level 5 is hard, but who cares, level 4 is good enough.


Level 3 is widely considered to be a bad idea. Relying on a driver to take over quickly is a recipe for disaster.

If Level 5 means there is no driver, then Cruise and Waymo already don't have drivers.

How is this different from riding as a passenger in a taxi, for example?

Also: Drive Pilot is a level 3 system, not a level 2 system. That's the entire point.


Looks like they are aiming for level 4 and still using safety drivers, though.

How is that different from L2? SAE Levels 0-2 demand constant supervision and the ability to take over at any moment. Level 3 is actually better, as it only requires you to be able to take over after a short (e.g. 10 second) notice. Levels 4 and 5 do not require the driver to be able to take over (e.g. drunk, sleeping, no license).

https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update


Don't have to pay safety drivers with L4.

At the risk of sounding pedantic this is not a Level 4 demo. It is a Level 2 demo where the driver didn't have to intervene during the demonstrated route.

What's the difference? Apart from the legal requirement to have a diver ready to take over in test vehicles (which necessarily makes it Level 2), the fundamental difference is that you'd have to show a lot more than one demo to establish that you've achieved Level 4. Level 4s are supposed to be able to operate without human intervention at all within prescribed domains (e.g. downtown cities). That doesn't mean operate one trip or one day or one month without a disengagement -- that's still Level 2.

I'm super impressed by the demo but Cruise will have to show more data to back up a Level 4 claim.


I would give this 10 points if I could! But that’s level 2 driving. It is not nothing.

Not really surprising. You can't be kind of driving. We really should not allow L2 and L3.

Should be just L1 and then L4 and L5 where no driver is needed.


Level 4? Mercedes already beat them to level 3

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/27/23572942/mercedes-drive-p...


SAE Level 4 driving is several orders of magnitude harder than SAE Level 2. You are either good enough to drive without requiring a driver or you are not. There is a reason developing L4 systems cost billions of dollars.

George Hotz thinks Comma does the job with only a fraction of the spending compared to the likes of Waymo, Cruise, Zoox, but fails to realize his product also does only a fraction of what the others are trying to do.


So yes, we have L5 driving. The cars don’t have drivers, regardless of some time restrictions.

I rode in a Zoox car two years ago. It was already at level 3, almost 4. The driver took over once but didn’t even have to. The car was about to do the same thing the driver did, he just got nervous.

*Needs an actual driver outside of test conditions.

With a pilot behind it.

Driver/Pilot less is not approved anywhere in US


The more I travel, the more I consider myself an SAE level 4 driver :)
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