Because men & women are still overall looking for something different, that's my 2 cents. What you say about the romance publishing industry is roughly correct although your algo description flattens the diversity of the genre (note the popularity of shapeshifter novels, paranormal, Amish with no sex, etc etc; there are many subgenres). What you don't note is the distinction between romance and erotica. Romance has a story with a happily ever after. Can TikTok or Instagram AI Boyfriend ads provide a story satisfactorily?
I'm not sure if research has really addressed evolution of women's expressions of sexuality over time and changing social norms. Even in the romance genre, what's considered appropriate in terms of consent and fantasy has evolved quite a bit over the last 40 years. That's true in terms of porn aimed at straight men as well, though not necessarily in the same directions.
But anyhow, how would AI boyfriends continue what's popular about romance -- the customization (subgenre for every taste), the story, and the happily ever after or happy for now for the woman? The last part in particular doesn't seem to be relevant/considered in the AI girlfriend discussion, it's just not part of the structure.
Also, dating sims seem to be popular in some geographies and not others; I know nothing about them, so there's got to be a story there...
On the other hand, we're now facing situations that we've never faced before, both as a species and as individuals. Increasingly, we're moving towards a future where you will never need to leave your home or interact with anyone. Netflix, and Amazon deliveries. Self-driving cars. Kids will eventually get their education online. Virtual reality is under active development.
Then there's AI, and sex robots. Why bother with a real boyfriend/girlfriend when you can talk to your phone and have an artificial companion? Real humans have their own wants and needs and may not do what you want. Worse, they might leave you. Your robot girlfriend on the other hand, you could have endless conversations with her in which she tells you exactly what you want to hear and never challenges you.
That's far-fetched, you say. In the near term, I tried Tinder and it's pretty addictive. An endless stream of new people I can meet. Most of them want nothing serious though. They don't even want to sleep with you more than once or twice for the most part. It's all about novelty-seeking. It seems to me like increasingly few people want a sustained relationship. Breakups hurt, so let's never risk having one, a constant stream of lovers is emotionally safer in a way, I suppose, but I can tell you it definitely leaves me feeling lonely.
Of course you can recycle the argument and just say that Gen Z wants less gratuitous romantic relationships in their TV shows and movies; one theory being that if they want romance they know where to find it, so they consider it even more jarring than we do when it's shoehorned into content merely because there's a demographic who's into that kind of thing.
I found this article a bit disturbing on several different points.
- romance being segregated from the routines of daily life
- the game-ification of dating apps
- the fact younger generations seem to be unable to read other peoples emotions
- the most 1/3 attractive women got 2/3 of all messages
- the most attractive men got 11 times as many messages as lowest
- the way men and women are emulating porn
- women becoming anti-men from poor repeated sexual experiences
It feels like we are heading into a dystopia.
I don't see how this continues on without an extreme reactionary events. Perhaps we already seeing this with new political movements like the article mentions some right wing groups are antiporn.
I'm beginning to think the sexual revolution and social media revolution together are just too much for the majority of humans. We aren't gods, we are primates. Comparing yourself to thousands of people is going to crush you. Treating people as commodities for sex or relationships is going to burn you out.
This is all super concerning, and gives me a lot of new insights into why I'm seeing so many young women and men become "revolutionary" albeit in very different ways.
Do you have any sources for that? The biggest change that happened in online dating in recent years is that it's been normalized, no longer seen as weird. That surely has something to do with the success its users had and is obviously very profitable for the companies running these services.
The fact that there is such a thing as a "dating scene" is quite telling already - in just that phrasing it's already depicted as a different world, like idk, accounting vs waste processing in careers. I and many others aren't up for a career switch like that.
Thankfully I met my GF through the nerdy side of the internet - an area I'm much more comfortable on.
Dating apps have no incentive to encourage long term relationships, because if you are in a long term relationship you are far less likely to use a dating app. Given the prevalence of dark pattern research to maximize "engagement" in the social media space, I would not be surprised if the most successful dating apps are actively optimized to encourage a meat market dynamic because it maximizes engagement with the app.
This is analogous to how regular social networks actively encourage unreasonable maximally-controversial discourse because it maximizes engagement, to the detriment of rational discussion of social and political issues. If people can reach a solution to issues like tradition vs. personal freedom, abortion, guns, etc., then they might spend less time on social media debating them and trolling and fighting about them and social media engagement might decline.
As far as porn goes, it's absolutely a substitute for sex for some people. It's less fulfilling but it's enough to get off and have the desire go away and it requires far less effort.
Another thing about porn I haven't seen mentioned much in this thread is how unrealistic it is and how people raised with a lot of porn probably have really unrealistic ideas about what sex is like. If they try to literally act out porn in the bedroom with their partner, it's likely not to go that well. In some cases they might go right for things many partners won't be interested in or would only be interested in after establishing a lot of trust and a real relationship.
This is not immediately clear from your comment, yet worth point out:
That is not necessarily a bad thing.
People change, society changes, is it so surprising the dating scene would change with the advent of the internet? This is but a small step in the direction of Huxley's Brave New World, for example.
Perhaps that's what you meant, perhaps I was too eager to find negativity in an objective post. My apologies.
Courtship has been out of fashion for years, so it's not much of a surprise that sex has followed suit. Once upon a time before the age of the internet, people had a limited amount of interests to pursue, popular culture was limited to 4 TV channels and about 10 radio stations, and they kept in mind the fact that being in a relationship requires both parties to find mutual interests to enjoy together. You shouldn't expect sex from another person if you can't even figure out how to be friends with them, and you shouldn't HAVE sex with them if you don't enjoy each other's company on a regular basis.
Nowadays we have funkopop wielding weebs trying to find their perfect waifu while girls are obsessing over Korean boy bands who barely speak their own language. There's no interest overlap. People don't even try.
People are simultaneously too picky and not picky enough. I know a woman who will date a man across the country but won't date one who is under 5'11" or over 6'3". The reasoning? She's 5'8" and wants to be able to wear heels.
And while I will never set foot in a church again unless it's for a wedding or funeral, denominational association did a decent job of figuring out what the foundations of people's morality and culture is. It's hard for a Southern Baptist to understand the whats and whys of Roman Catholicism, for example. By the same token, part of the reason that we've culturally evolved rites of inclusion is so that people feel included... and we are now abandoning them because it's easy to sit in a cave staring at a tiny screen while ordering from doordash and amazon than it is to deal with our fellow humans.
I'm not interested in so much finding Mr./Mrs. right. I'm interested in the business problem.
The waves I see coming are: a shift from long term romantic involvement to a trend toward shorter term interactions among my generation, a cultural lack of social stigma in smartphone apps vs. websites for dating, and an opportunity to use data that wasn't explicitly entered by the user for the purposes of impressing a prospective date.
And while no program can predict love, it can reduce transaction costs, from e.g. distance, lack of social network, social anxiety upon meeting new people, etc. That friction is leading a lot of people to sit home alone when two apartments over there's a lovely person who would be thrilled to be out on a date with them. What type of commitment they make from there is beyond the purview of the technology.
All the best to you, your wife, and family. It's fascinating and wonderful to me there are little humans running around very may not have existed without the communication the internet enables :)
In the real world people seem to still be reproducing and mating and marrying. So no, this story of women no longer pairing with men due to apps making them picker doesn't ring true.
Found my partner via dating apps. So did most of my friends. I don't think "hey I just met you" dating will ever be trending after COVID, #metoo and how everything is eaten up by digitalisation. Articles like these are just pissing against the wind.
I think the article could go into more depth and analyze this much further. One aspect that is entirely missing is how dating changed over the last decade. The rise of dating apps for instance would be interesting to put into the mix when discussing this.
The modern conception of true love is very modern. Nobles used to marry to accumulate property and fairy tales were little more than the glammed up version the hoi polloi consumed. Like the Kardashian thing, tabloids etc where the story is a fabrication.
I think what gets lost is that long term relationships have been more utilitarian than anyone likes to admit. Who doesn't love a love story, or want to feel the rush of first attraction?
The problem is that it isn't enough to build a life out of. You need a practical, working partnership to raise a family and app dating isn't geared to that goal. The apps give a monstrous illusion there might be something better on the next swipe, and it just isn't true.
I'm fascinated by the dating app world, because it's a part of the culture I missed out on, as someone who has been in the same relationship since before the iPhone. But the way the author describes it is almost exactly the same as what being single was like 15+ years ago. I didn't have apps for doing intros, so there was more friction for that, but other than that, it doesn't seem like much has changed. From many of my friends, it sounds like navigating the electronic correspondence is as frustrating as trying to make spontaneous physical world connections, especially if your goal and/or the goal of the people you're corresponding with is to find potential relationship partners.
Problems with modern dating have worsened from various perspectives::
- Social media platforms, such as Instagram and TikTok, have significantly influenced dating expectations. They have set high standards that women often use to choose their partners. A few years ago, Instagram was the primary influencer, but now it’s TikTok. This influence ranges from physical appearance, where men on TikTok even went to the extent of breaking their jaws to achieve a certain look, demonstrating the power of peer pressure, to lifestyle expectations, for instance, college girls often expect their potential partners to regularly take them out for dinner and parties. Working women might expect men to earn a substantial income, around 300k or 500k a year, and also provide travel, gifts, etc. (all of these have videos of women demanding them you can look then up), There’s also an expectation for men to conform to a woman’s lifestyle and mentality. If he doesn't, she can easily find another partner on a whim. Therefore, as a man, you are expected to have a good job, earn a substantial income, own a car, a house, maintain good looks and fitness, be outgoing, mentally healthy, and cover expenses such as dinners and shopping. On the other hand, a woman is often just expected to be slightly above average looking.
- Dating apps have significantly altered the landscape of dating, often hindering the potential for forming long-term relationships or settling down. These apps are designed with algorithms that encourage continuous usage and even persuade users to purchase premium services. For women, it often becomes akin to window shopping, creating an illusion of choice, the more options there are, the harder it becomes to make a choice. Many users (mostly women) tend to judge someone’s entire personality based on poorly taken photos or inadequately written descriptions. A recent study found that many users are not actually on these platforms for dating (1). Women often seek male validation and attention, or even meet in real life for temporary gains like free dinners or smoking weed. Men, on the other hand, use these platforms as a means to show off their ‘matches’ like a trophies. The dating scene has become fundamentally corrupted at this point. Even if two individuals connect, they often find it easier to break up and look for other options since there are ‘plenty of fish in the sea’. They become addicted to the cycle of finding and trying new matches rather than focusing on settling down. The only entity that benefits from this situation is the business model of the dating app. It’s important to note that many of these dating apps are owned by a single company or a few companies.
- Women having the dominant choice in this "game": In many cultures where pre-arranged marriages are still prevalent, the dating scene tends to be less stressful and more robust, often leading to long-term relationships or marriages. For instance, Japan has returned to this practice due to the complexities of modern dating (2). In these pre-arranged setups, parents filter potential partners before introducing them to their offspring. This is a significant step because if you give the choice directly to a young person (or even an older one with a lack of experience), they are likely to make poor decisions. Their choices will be heavily influenced by certain ‘checklists’ that align with fantasies in their minds, such as looks that resemble a celebrity, an accent, someone look like a person from a TV show they like, or other superficial attributes that often result in so-called hypergamy.
Dating apps amplify this issue as judgments are mostly based on short descriptions or a few pictures. These apps are designed more for sexual interactions rather than finding the most compatible partners - a strategy to keep them in business. Consequently, women have evolved to fit into the social status quo. Women, being more vulnerable to threats such as murder and rape, have learned to adapt quickly to social norms for survival in a natural setting. However, this becomes problematic when society adopts self-destructive norms. Women often reinforce these self-destructive norms for the safety of their own genetics, leading to a cycle where self-destructive norms breed more of the same.
Dating apps have become the most common way to meet other people, especially given the anti-social tendencies of millennials and Gen Z. It has also become the norm and status quo, including behaviors like swiping right/left. As a result, women’s evolutionary instincts drive them to reinforce the status quo no matter what. In a hypothetical scenario where some tyrants change the current status quo for dating overnight, you will find that women will support it.
- In dating, women often control sexual interactions while men control relationships. These apps are primarily about sexual interactions, making the dating pool unbalanced and women are the dominant side. This dominance exists even without the algorithm that further manipulates the scene, where women usually have unlimited swipes and even cheaper premium plans compared to men. A clear example of women controlling sex is that any woman can download any of these apps at any given time and find someone to hook up with within 30 minutes. There are even screenshots of profiles where women mention they are in a certain city ‘only for the weekend’, showing how easy it is to arrange a quick hookup for a woman. Men, on the other hand, if they wanted to have sex right now for whatever reason, it won’t happen - unless they live in a country where prostitution is legalized. Otherwise, they end up sexually frustrated and exploited by these apps even more. This leads to the ‘player’ culture, where men manipulate women’s emotions to access what they can’t control - sex, and later leave them because they do control the relationship. The woman is then left with an emotional scar while looking for the next match, filled with judgment and trust issues, making the matching process even worse for the next ones, that's why dating scene wasn't that bad say in 2015, it is far worse now, the effects are exponential that a lot of youg men are now actually single, while women are not (3).
The solution: it's simple, going back to basics. Parents should take responsibility for finding a suitable potential partner for their son or daughter. It’s highly unlikely that a father would reject a potential guy because he’s not 6’ tall or doesn’t have a ‘porn stash’. They would likely look into deeper attributes
Dating apps suggest that a small group are having more sex and a larger group less sex.
It’s the distribution of sex, not the amount.
Technology has enabled the upper echelons of desirable men to sleep with many desirable women, and those down the pecking order are content with porn/toys, instead of settling for anyone other than the prized upper echelon.
It’s not just the technology but the social change that resulted from technology
I'm not sure if research has really addressed evolution of women's expressions of sexuality over time and changing social norms. Even in the romance genre, what's considered appropriate in terms of consent and fantasy has evolved quite a bit over the last 40 years. That's true in terms of porn aimed at straight men as well, though not necessarily in the same directions.
But anyhow, how would AI boyfriends continue what's popular about romance -- the customization (subgenre for every taste), the story, and the happily ever after or happy for now for the woman? The last part in particular doesn't seem to be relevant/considered in the AI girlfriend discussion, it's just not part of the structure.
Also, dating sims seem to be popular in some geographies and not others; I know nothing about them, so there's got to be a story there...
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